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Hyundai wants loniq 5 customers to pay for cybersecurity patch in baffling move

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Re: Hyundai wants loniq 5 customers to pay for cybersecurity patch in baffling move

#141

Post by aembleton »

reactordev wrote: post #128
robinsonb5 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in McDonalds if what they give you is defective they will replace it without question once you bring it to their attention. If it turned out the door locks on the car were defective you'd expect them to be replaced under warranty. If the warranty had expired the situation would, admittedly, be a bit murkier - but you could still make a case that since the locks had always been faulty they'd be the manufacturer's…

[flagged]

> You do this, they’ll spit in it.

I didn't work there long, but I don't remember anyone doing that.

Re: Hyundai wants loniq 5 customers to pay for cybersecurity patch in baffling move

#142

Post by reactordev »

TheDong wrote: post #130
reactordev wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, yes, yes they should. If you can’t guarantee security of your device, and you don’t want to update the software, then you’ll need to upgrade the hardware. I think it’s perfectly reasonable to have that under a warranty.

> I think it’s perfectly reasonable to have that under a warranty. The warranty is not that long, and I think the parent comment is talking about 6+ year old iphones that are definitely out of warranty. If those should get replaced, surely that means each person buys one iPhone in their life, and then just gets free replacements forever, leading to the initial cost of the phone having to go up a lot to account for th…

Incorrect. Forced obsolescence lets manufacturers decide where that cut off is. 6+ year iPhone, nope, not going to touch it. Sorry. However, if it’s still serviceable and by some rule less than X years old, that just had a security issue or something publicly disclosed, should do their best effort to repair their customer relationships by making it right.

Re: Hyundai wants loniq 5 customers to pay for cybersecurity patch in baffling move

#143

Post by aembleton »

birdfood wrote: post #75

I want a dumb EV. No infotainment system. Just speakers and a way to plug my device into them. Anything critical to the car should be completely air gapped and require an absolute minimum amount of software, preferably zero.

If you get the base level, expression trim of the Dacia Spring then you get an EV without an infotainment system: https://www.dacia.co.uk/hybrid-and-electric-range/spring-cit...

Re: Hyundai wants loniq 5 customers to pay for cybersecurity patch in baffling move

#144

Post by jpc0 »

reactordev wrote: post #128
robinsonb5 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in McDonalds if what they give you is defective they will replace it without question once you bring it to their attention. If it turned out the door locks on the car were defective you'd expect them to be replaced under warranty. If the warranty had expired the situation would, admittedly, be a bit murkier - but you could still make a case that since the locks had always been faulty they'd be the manufacturer's…

[flagged]

Are you just a mean person on general that you think bringing a problem to the attention of wait staff would cause them to become malicious?

Be a nice human being and you won’t receive that treatment. If your McDonalds wait staff are generally malicious without any provocation, well vote with your feet, nobody is making you eat McDonalds, the sales numbers will correct he problem.

Re: Hyundai wants loniq 5 customers to pay for cybersecurity patch in baffling move

#145

Post by TheDong »

aembleton wrote: post #139
TheDong wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been holding my breath ever since spectre/meltdown for a free cpu upgrade to make up for the slower performance that the mitigations cause. It's intel's bug, they promised a certain processor speed, shouldn't it be their responsibility to replace it since their own security oversight resulted in the hardware not working as advertised? Did you expect the same from intel/amd when those bugs came out? Is it differe…

> they promised a certain processor speed How have they advertised that? Was it clock frequency? Their mitigations mean it still runs at that clock frequency.

They promised the performance of their processor more than Hyundai promised that the Ioniq 5 was "carjacking-proof, even if the attackers have specialized tools", and this thread is about hyundai replacing parts of cars for free because attackers can hack into cars. With specialized tools. Which of course they can.

Re: Hyundai wants loniq 5 customers to pay for cybersecurity patch in baffling move

#146

Post by reactordev »

jpc0 wrote: post #144
reactordev wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Are you just a mean person on general that you think bringing a problem to the attention of wait staff would cause them to become malicious? Be a nice human being and you won’t receive that treatment. If your McDonalds wait staff are generally malicious without any provocation, well vote with your feet, nobody is making you eat McDonalds, the sales numbers will correct he problem.

While as noble as that sounds, there’s only so much nice in the tank in a day. Wait staff and fast food workers are treated terribly and so you end up with folks about to snap.

There’s a lot of evidence of this happening in the USA if you just do a search. It’s uncommon, but it happens. At those prices, I’d just rather purchase the item to be made again.

But yes, be a good human.

Re: Hyundai wants loniq 5 customers to pay for cybersecurity patch in baffling move

#147

Post by Hilift »

poemxo wrote: post #116

I don't get why companies don't understand how offensive it is to the customer to nickel and dime them, especially after they're already a converted customer. They could easily eat the $60 cost and spin it as positive PR, Apple-style. It's particularly bad because customers see it as a defect. No one wants to pay full price for defective equipment. The only thing that would make it worse is if this "hack" were reprod…

There are two aspects. "Charge" and "costs/who pays". When someone can start a Kia with a USB cable, the owner pays for that. Kia may have a fee for replacing something, but that doesn't factor in the calculus of "there's a reason these people are buying our product, and we assess they will continue to do so."

Note that Kia offered a maximum of $6,125/$3,375 for totaled/damaged vehicles.

The previous formula:

"You take the population of vehicles in the field (A) and multiple it by the probable rate of failure (B), then multiply the result by the average cost of an out-of-court settlement (C). A times B times C equals X. This is what it will cost if we don't initiate a recall. If X is greater than the cost of a recall, we recall the cars and no one gets hurt. If X is less than the cost of a recall, then we don't recall."

Re: Hyundai wants loniq 5 customers to pay for cybersecurity patch in baffling move

#148

Post by sorokod »

jjani wrote: post #22

They're swapping out hardware, which is why they're asking money for this to compensate the labor costs. Not saying this justifies it, but the title is misleading.

Why would the price/cost of hardware replacement be treated differently from the price/cost of software replacement?

Re: Hyundai wants loniq 5 customers to pay for cybersecurity patch in baffling move

#149

Post by hobs »

bestouff wrote: post #107
Mistletoe wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out Slate trucks. I want that too and this seems to be perfect. Has windows you roll down even. Fingers crossed it actually launches. https://www.slate.auto/en

This thing has no autonomy

Good? Less to go wrong.

Re: Hyundai wants loniq 5 customers to pay for cybersecurity patch in baffling move

#150

Post by uyzstvqs »

birdfood wrote: post #75

I want a dumb EV. No infotainment system. Just speakers and a way to plug my device into them. Anything critical to the car should be completely air gapped and require an absolute minimum amount of software, preferably zero.

Agreed. I'd actually like to buy an EV, but so far there are no candidates which meet my minimum requirements, which are pretty much what you said + serviceable by any mechanic with aftermarket parts + using Na-ion, not Li-ion batteries. And it shouldn't be super ugly like most new cars are today (e.g. Rivian, VW ID Buzz).

Though I'm pretty sure you can't even legally make such a car anymore, at least in Europe, where certain "smart" features are required for new cars. Perhaps a manufacturer of such an EV could put all of that into one box which the user can simply pull out and discard.

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