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KDE is finally getting a native virtual machine manager called “Karton”

neowin.net

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Re: KDE is finally getting a native virtual machine manager called “Karton”

#141

Post by NotPractical »

sph wrote: post #132
franga2000 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The linked site goes against everything the Linux* platform has historically stood for and frankly just sounds like designers whining that they can't design for computers like they used to for print. I see the same fight against customization on the web, where designers keep asking for ways to, for example, override font and font size preferences, default widget styling, prevent/hijack zoom/select/search/context/what…

> The linked site goes against everything the Linux* platform has historically stood for Nonsense. Linux is about libre software. It might be about choice, if you want. It’s not about “all software needs to let my desktop look like a clown makeup set or it’s literally 1984” Amateur environments from the 90s let you do that, but it has nothing to do with the Linux philosophy

> It’s not about “all software needs to let my desktop look like a clown makeup set

Except it literally is about that? Libre software guarantees users the right to make their own modifications to it. That's basically the entire point.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software

Being actively hostile towards users making and sharing modifications to your software, while still technically permitting them, probably doesn't disqualify your project as "libre" software, but it goes against the spirit of it.

Re: KDE is finally getting a native virtual machine manager called “Karton”

#142

Post by nixosbestos »

Aardwolf wrote: post #71

Why "finally"? To me, KDE's job should be to organize and render windows, application launcher icons, and the like If I want a virtual machine, I'll use a virtual machine for that All this "KDE suite" stuff and what not is unnecesarry - some of these are good pieces of software that I like to use, but there's no reason they need any integration with a desktop environment (arguably a few basics like a file manager, VT…

Because virt-manager, virt-viewer and everything SPICE related is hot, steaming, unmaintained shit.

I've reported so many bugs it's not even funny. Audio is completely broken in my VMs now. It breaks regularly, restarting the viewer session used to fix it, now it just produces garbled ear piercing audio. No responses. No responses to issues where i ask for packaging guidance in case we don't configure it the way they expect.

It's truly unfortunate. And I'm betting that KDE is probably just using virt/spice components, but at least it won't be GTK3 near-abandonware.

Re: KDE is finally getting a native virtual machine manager called “Karton”

#143

Post by nixosbestos »

sph wrote: post #97

I love how 95% of the comments are about anything but the effing article. Looking forward to a new VM manager. virt-manager is what I use and it's not very maintained: it still has issues on a HiDPI screen where scaling is all messed up. GNOME Boxes is both buggy and featureless in the usual GNOME sense, haven't found much use for it. I think all the focus has been on the virsh CLI and we haven't had a decent VM GUI…

Ah yes, I'm so desensitized to the utter terrible quality of the virt* stack that I forgot that they merged "hidpi support" that was categorically worse than it being unscaled, and then just said "fuck it" for like a decade.

It's stunning that apparently not a single dev working on it has ever owned a hidpi screen apparently.

Re: KDE is finally getting a native virtual machine manager called “Karton”

#144

Post by int_19h »

flexagoon wrote: post #126
franga2000 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The linked site goes against everything the Linux* platform has historically stood for and frankly just sounds like designers whining that they can't design for computers like they used to for print. I see the same fight against customization on the web, where designers keep asking for ways to, for example, override font and font size preferences, default widget styling, prevent/hijack zoom/select/search/context/what…

Seems like you didn't actually read the linked "stop theming our apps" page. They have no issue with users theming their own systems, and gnome apps are still themable. Developers have an issue with distributions shipping a custom theme by default, which breaks things and causes users to report issues which aren't the fault of the developers.

They are the fault of developers when developers hardcode their app UI around one particular theme on a platform that explicitly supports theming.

The linked website is basically complaining that 1) it's too hard, and 2) it precludes app developers from doing their own "branding". The former is just laziness, given that software 20 years ago managed to do it fine, and the latter is narcissism.

Re: KDE is finally getting a native virtual machine manager called “Karton”

#145

Post by int_19h »

dingnuts wrote: post #90
jopicornell wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's something I think as well. I've tried 4 times through the years, and KDE always felt less stable and solid than Gnome. I guess it's the configurability of KDE that makes it that way. I like the concept, but I guess maintaining it is no easy task, and people is more motivated to add things than fix them.

This was true years ago but Gnome slowly removed every feature I liked and put me on an update treadmill for each and every plug-in, and I needed a bunch of them for basic functionality normal desktops provide. A trivial example: keeping a working weather widget on my taskbar for an update cycle without breaking it was too much to ask for Gnome. I put up with this kind of thing for YEARS before switching to Plasma. W…

I was also one of the people who preferred Gnome back when it was KDE3 vs Gnome2, and I concur - the situation is very different today. Using Gnome feels like being force fed some kind of bland paste while being assured that it's healthy and good for you. With KDE, I can actually set it up in such a way that things are where I expect to find them, and then forget that it's even there.

Re: KDE is finally getting a native virtual machine manager called “Karton”

#146

Post by int_19h »

vitorgrs wrote: post #42

I really like KDE in general, and how full featured it is, but their design just feels dated compared to all modern OSes and other DMs on Linux... The only reason why I'm a gnome user, it's because of that. And yes, I know I can just customize, but everytime I try, it just make KDE more sluggish for some reason, and doesn't really feels natural.

I'm genuinely curious if there's anything specific about their default theme and UX that makes it feel "dated" to you?

Re: KDE is finally getting a native virtual machine manager called “Karton”

#147

Post by vitorgrs »

int_19h wrote: post #146
vitorgrs wrote: post #42

I really like KDE in general, and how full featured it is, but their design just feels dated compared to all modern OSes and other DMs on Linux... The only reason why I'm a gnome user, it's because of that. And yes, I know I can just customize, but everytime I try, it just make KDE more sluggish for some reason, and doesn't really feels natural.

I'm genuinely curious if there's anything specific about their default theme and UX that makes it feel "dated" to you?

For light theme, their default color... The grayish combined with the UX in general feels for me very Windows 2000 or so.

But talking about real UI/UX, I do guess it's just about everything. It feels like the UI/UX was developed by programmers. It feels unpolished.

Border radius, paddings... A lot of things there being square and not round... The default icons. The context menu being to square, again. Even the default close/minimize buttons.

Like, UI wise, Finder and Nautilus is just way ahead than Dolphin for me.

Libadwaita apps also feel very consistent. I can find most of my apps with basically same consistent design on gnome.

UI wise I find gnome beautiful, their problem it's with UX and the excess of simplicity, like removing real features from Nautilus...

But at the same time I guess, KDE made the mistake of being too much complex UI wise. Even their screenshot tool it's a little insane hahahah

Maybe I just find it KDE ugly because I got super used by Gnome, macOS and Windows 10/11 UI? Likely.

Re: KDE is finally getting a native virtual machine manager called “Karton”

#148

Post by nicman23 »

Spivak wrote: post #54
nicman23 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

microsoft has a monetary incentive to never allow that. although you can do something like that with rdp in xorg

Parallels does it on macOS and it works. Windows also provides a way to RDP individual applications so it's "just" a matter of the client hiding the seam.

that is what i said. the issue is that freerdp (which can do single window / application) only supports xorg - not sure about xwayland

Re: KDE is finally getting a native virtual machine manager called “Karton”

#149

Post by 1oooqooq »

wkat4242 wrote: post #140
1oooqooq wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the last version of plasma is here to prove your wrong. open the color panel and tick the option "tint window title bar with accent color"... which used to be just the window decorator title and borders. ... now some dev wanting to post screenshots on Reddit decided the accent color should be a light pastel tone that can be applied to the top elements of the qt application, bringing back the worst of gnome 2 era.

I'm pretty sure I have that option turned on. I love the accent colour option (2 years ago in the anniversary release of plasma 5 I think) but it's only recent so not all apps have incorporated it yet. But I don't really understand what goes wrong there.

if you like your dolphin header, location bar, most buttons etc, with the same high contrast color you use for window titles, enjoy.

i personally think wm fiddlin with application content absurd.

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