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Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

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Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#141

Post by phendrenad2 »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #85
perihelions wrote: post #21

You people are too good at critical thinking to read "an investment of 500 million euros between 2025 and 2027" and not instantly write this off as empty grandstanding. How much does—or did, recently—the United States federal government invest in scientists in the USA? Is it ~$70 billion a year? [0] Europe can achieve America's (past) results when Europe starts talking with money. Science migration has historically g…

Yeah, but who cares about that higher salary when the risk is that you get a random letter saying “self-deport or who knows maybe we send you to some prison in Ecuador or some other El Salvador”.

Scientists are generally smart people and will realize that the number of scientists that get a random letter demanding them to self-deport is zero, and they'll reconsider when it reaches at least one.

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#142

Post by ImJamal »

thebruce87m wrote: post #39
fooker wrote: post #22

Europe does every thing except the only needed thing, paying up. Not just for this, same for finding startups, helping Ukraine or Palestine.

Seems like Europe has provided a bigger chunk than the US for Ukraine, unless you think it should be even more than that? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crew8y7pwd5o.amp

From the article

> the US has sent more grants, while the EU sent more loans.

While more money has come from the EU they are more in the form of loans which isn't really providing aid in the traditional sense.

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#143

Post by erxam »

mpweiher wrote: post #103
insane_dreamer wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

We're saving ca 10 million people from the actual genocide the Arabs have been trying to perpetrate against Israel since at least 1948. There is no genocide, attempted or not, in the other direction. In fact, the IDF has a non-combatant/combatant casualty ratio of around 1.2 : 1, which is by far the best (lowest) in the world. Typical is around 10:1.

It's really not that hard to achieve a casualty ratio of 1.2:1 if you consider groups like <1-year-old babies and patients on life support as 'active combatants'.

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#144

Post by Swoerd »

diogocp wrote: post #81
JimTheMan wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have access to the whole European union? People value not having to step over the homeless to get to work, lower crime, free healthcare, no risk of deportation for having a view on Palestine etc etc The US isn't that pleasant of a place to live.

> They have access to the whole European union? Only if they are EU citizens. > People value not having to step over the homeless to get to work Better stay away from Paris, then.

[dead]

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#145

Post by phatfish »

atemerev wrote: post #45
ascorbic wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's quite misleading to refer to them as "escaping the horrible realities of Putin's regime" like they were some kind of defectors, when according to your source they were all working as representatives of Russian labs, and most weren't based at CERN itself. It was the cooperation with the affiliated labs that was terminated. Russian citizens affiliated to non-Russian labs were allowed to stay.

Russia was not a member of CERN, so most Russian physicists worked there on (fake-ish, for documents only) exchange programs with JINR Russia. Most of them were living in France or Switzerland for many years. Given the opportunity, every single one of them would have changed the affiliation, but CERN only agreed to employ them this way (unless they find an actual academic position in an actual European university on…

It is not good, but it is necessary when a government acts the way the Kremlin does. I'm glad to hear there are serious measures in place.

Surely you saw the writing on the wall and could have taken citizenship in your host country? All the signs were there since 2014.

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#146

Post by enaaem »

wvoch235 wrote: post #140

The problem with the European mindset on this, is it's always involves bureaucrats taking their taxpayers money and allocating it in smarter ways than American investors who are doing it with their own money. If that seems unlikely to work to you, then you possess critical thinking. The US spends more on R&D (Private and Public) than the next 5 countries combined. Public research is and since the 70s has been a small…

Europe cannot pool infinite investors money because of the fractured capital market. It's funny enough actually the lack of EU regulation that causes this. Because you get 27 different regulatory bodies, that makes cross country investments much more complicated.

That being said, I find Europe's research and industrial capacity to be underrated. Europe is very competitive in industries like cars and tooling. You don't really see American cars in Asia, but still tons of European luxury cars. Europe does well in boring tech that does not receive infinite VC money.

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#147

Post by cherry_tree »

kgdiem wrote: post #133
klunger wrote: post #12

My department (at a Norwegian university) is working on a headhunting plan. The way the ERC grants are structured, the applicant needs a sponsoring institute. So, we are identifying researchers who are working on relevant topics, if we think it will be a good fit (and/or if we have successfully collaborated with them in the past). Some of the details are still being ironed out. The beauracracy is real! Even so, I gue…

How do you think that Norway’s wealth tax could impact its ability to draw talent from any other country? Knowing that, should you develop anything (drug, material, etc) and want to spin it out to a startup, you will be taxed on the unrealized valuation would weigh very heavily on me were I a researcher. Full disclosure, I know that this isn’t everyone’s goal, but this is HN after all!

“I want to contribute to society, but if I earn more than X Millions of dollars 1% of my wealth will be taxed”

I guess don’t try to contribute to society then.

What you are describing isnt a hacker mentality, it’s one of an MBA graduate whose sole purpose in life is to maximize their own wealth. The idea that such a mentality is linked to this forum shows how far hacker culture has fallen and is deeply sad.

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#148

Post by demosito666 »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #90
chaosbolt wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% about everything you said. My cousin studied at Ecole Polytechnique, then did a phd at another top french school and become a professor there. He has 6 articles publishes in the top 3 Math/CS/AI conferences. He was literally paid 45k€ a year, before taxes and other things, that's 2300€ a month after taxes, his rent was 1100€ because it's Paris, now Polytechnique has one of the hardest math/physics entrance exams…

Did he “fuck out to the US” to work in privately owned businesses, or comparable university job? What prevented your friend to “fuck out” to a private business in the EU?

What difference would it make? Salaried position in EU would pay max 2x that and will end up in higher tax bracket, so net income will increase maybe 1.5x. This is leagues behind US. Europe is only for those high-skilled workers who don’t value money too much.

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#149

Post by pqtyw »

subscribed wrote: post #84
pqtyw wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the links came from the ChatGPT answer as well?

It's well known for making the stuff up because this is how it works The Guardian found a article attributed to them, generated (not "written") by chatgpt. A silly lawyer got into trouble trying to use chatgpt-generated precedences in court. Everything chatgpt prints out is made up , and that includes links. Seriously, heed the warning the company itself prominently prints I app and in the webui. Chatgpt may print ou…

It can (and does actually) open and verify the links it provides so it's not as bad anymore, at least when it's using real existing articles/papers/etc. it find as sources inside its context.

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#150

Post by nextos »

wvoch235 wrote: post #140

The problem with the European mindset on this, is it's always involves bureaucrats taking their taxpayers money and allocating it in smarter ways than American investors who are doing it with their own money. If that seems unlikely to work to you, then you possess critical thinking. The US spends more on R&D (Private and Public) than the next 5 countries combined. Public research is and since the 70s has been a small…

Also European Academia is very hierarchical. The US has a much healthier proportion of early career faculty positions, which you can apply to straight after your PhD or a postdoc.

IMHO, this creates some strange dynamics and doesn't favor new ideas.

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