Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US • Hacker News Board

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#31

Post by hyperman1 » Sat, May 10, 2025, 8:59 AM UTC

fooker wrote: post #22

Europe does every thing except the only needed thing, paying up. Not just for this, same for finding startups, helping Ukraine or Palestine.

It's worse. There is no Europe. There is no one who can decide to pay.

It's a marriage of convenience between states that know they are ignored if they speak on their own. But each of them sees all others as a way to amplify their own voice but surely not have an independent thought. It's the penultimate example of trying to herd cats.

Europe is good at commerce because it has to, the member states want to sell to each other. In the same way, it's bad at politics, military and vision because it still can afford to.

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#32

Post by ykonstant » Sat, May 10, 2025, 8:59 AM UTC

klunger wrote: post #16

rednafi wrote: post #7

Europe really needs to fix the funding issue and language fragmentation. Otherwise there's no "luring people in." Every time someone brings this up, a bunch of people are like, "Have you ever worked in the EU? They all speak English at work." Yes, I have, and also on three other continents. Europe hasn’t adopted English at work that much, and no one I know is excited about dealing with racism, picking up the local la…

This reads like a bitter ex-employee. I guess you were in Germany? There are plenty of European countries that do use English as the working language for technical fields, if there is not enough domestic talent. What you say about the US research ecosystem may have been true until January 2025 but it is unfortuantely no longer the case. At the same time, the EU is finally getting its act together in both defense AND…

I don't know about defense, but on mathstodon people are having bitter laughs over the "500 million for research", when the UK alone with its faltering economy manages to get multiple times that in the same time frame.

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#33

Post by fxtentacle » Sat, May 10, 2025, 9:01 AM UTC

perihelions wrote: post #21

You people are too good at critical thinking to read "an investment of 500 million euros between 2025 and 2027" and not instantly write this off as empty grandstanding. How much does—or did, recently—the United States federal government invest in scientists in the USA? Is it ~$70 billion a year? [0] Europe can achieve America's (past) results when Europe starts talking with money. Science migration has historically g…

I believe the goal of this initiative is not to create a better offer in Europe. It's to remind US scientists that US funding has been axed.

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#34

Post by fakedang » Sat, May 10, 2025, 9:02 AM UTC

500 million for attracting the best academia is why Europe is a has-been and will continue to remain a has-been. The actual number should have been 50 billion, but Europe would rather spend that on consultants, policythinkers and thoughtleaders.

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#35

Post by mpweiher » Sat, May 10, 2025, 9:02 AM UTC

perihelions wrote: post #21

You people are too good at critical thinking to read "an investment of 500 million euros between 2025 and 2027" and not instantly write this off as empty grandstanding. How much does—or did, recently—the United States federal government invest in scientists in the USA? Is it ~$70 billion a year? [0] Europe can achieve America's (past) results when Europe starts talking with money. Science migration has historically g…

This is not EU R&D budget. This is a small delta, extra funding specifically for attracting US scientists who are looking to move. Comparing this to the total expenditure by the US federal government seems...odd.

I asked ChatGPT:

"Combining both EU-level and national R&D expenditures, the total R&D spending across the EU in 2023 was approximately €505 billion." But that appears to be total, both government and industry.

Spending by national government was apparently around € 123 billion. In addition, the EU spent ~ € 13 billion a year. So a total of € 136 billion in government spending.

https://www.eureporter.co/economy/eurostat-economy/2024/08/0...

https://eufunds.me/what-is-the-budget-of-horizon-europe/

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#36

Post by constantcrying » Sat, May 10, 2025, 9:03 AM UTC

I see great success for this programs, if they can avoid telling these scientists what they are going to get paid or how much taxes they will have to pay.

If you want to get paid, by American standards, lower middle class wages, then sure, come to Europe. You can also enjoy arcane organizations and bureaucratic nightmares.

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#37

Post by mpweiher » Sat, May 10, 2025, 9:04 AM UTC

fooker wrote: post #22

Europe does every thing except the only needed thing, paying up. Not just for this, same for finding startups, helping Ukraine or Palestine.

- Europe has spent more on Ukraine than the US.

- Europe has, sadly, also been the main sender of aid to, effectively, Hamas. I wish they would stop.

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#38

Post by mpweiher » Sat, May 10, 2025, 9:05 AM UTC

mobtrain wrote: post #28

fooker wrote: post #22

Europe does every thing except the only needed thing, paying up. Not just for this, same for finding startups, helping Ukraine or Palestine.

Europe „needs to pay up […] for Palestine” .. can you expand on this a little why you'd think that?

Yeah, funding a terror group that wants to destroy the west seems like a suboptimal use of our wealth.

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#39

Post by thebruce87m » Sat, May 10, 2025, 9:05 AM UTC

fooker wrote: post #22

Europe does every thing except the only needed thing, paying up. Not just for this, same for finding startups, helping Ukraine or Palestine.

Seems like Europe has provided a bigger chunk than the US for Ukraine, unless you think it should be even more than that?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crew8y7pwd5o.amp

Re: Europe launches program to lure scientists away from the US

#40

Post by ascorbic » Sat, May 10, 2025, 9:07 AM UTC

atemerev wrote: post #29

Oh well. When Russian scientists were escaping the horrible realities of Putin's regime, had someone in Europe attempted to "lure" them? No, they were fired by hundreds [1] and students were not allowed anymore [2]. Not counting the immense indirect pressure like closing their bank accounts and not prolonging their existing residence documents even when they had jobs. When Ukrainian scientists tried to escape the hor…

It's quite misleading to refer to them as "escaping the horrible realities of Putin's regime" like they were some kind of defectors, when according to your source they were all working as representatives of Russian labs, and most weren't based at CERN itself. It was the cooperation with the affiliated labs that was terminated. Russian citizens affiliated to non-Russian labs were allowed to stay.