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Plain – a web framework for building products with Python

plainframework.com

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Re: Plain – a web framework for building products with Python

#141

Post by askonomm »

beaugunderson wrote: post #136
askonomm wrote: post #125

First thing that I don't like is the settings being strings that reference classes. Usually that means that go-to definition does not work (I've seen similar things in Symfony with YAML use). If the config needs to reference a class, or some object, I would like to be able to easily navigate to it as opposed to having to manually search the project for it. If this was an actual object reference as opposed to a string…

> First thing that I don't like is the settings being strings that reference classes. Those classes can reference the settings, so including them as strings is done to allow that to work without creating circular imports.

Ah yeah, didn't remember that constraint in Python. I thought I read something about a future version fixing that when it comes to just type hints, but I suppose that wouldn't work here, since it's not really a type hint, right?

Re: Plain – a web framework for building products with Python

#142

Post by theptip »

Seems weird to me. The strength of Django is the ORM and the ecosystem/idioms.

Why would I break compatibility with the latter by taking a fork?

I would love to see better admin (so many have tried to do this) but it’s unclear to me why the goodstuff here can’t be a Django project template. (https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/5.1/releases/1.4/#custom-p...)

As a longtime user if I want anything different these days it’s a lighter-weight experience like Django Ninja or FastAPI.

Re: Plain – a web framework for building products with Python

#144

Post by [deleted] »

petr25102018 wrote: post #64
sroerick wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on this? What paradigms do you think are outdated? Generally speaking, I think Django has lagged a bit behind other frameworks. However, the continued advantage of being Python driven has left it useful in my book when working with Python data utilities in the back end. What’s your perspective here?

It would be a long list. I will post some examples but you can summarize it as "Django is not ideal choice to build a modern SAAS applications" and "Django developer experience is lacking". 1. REST/HTTP API building needs to be built in for a batteries included framework. In 2025 it is already so so late. REST Framework is "finished" and even if it wasn't the third-party extensions including Ninja feel alien. They ne…

[deleted]

Re: Plain – a web framework for building products with Python

#145

Post by davegaeddert »

mariocesar wrote: post #116

I've some mixed feelings about this fork. On the one hand, I get the motivations, there is alway a lot of value in experimenting outside of a legacy project. But at the same time, I cant help but feel uneasy seeing something I've deeply respected and used on for years being split off in this way, "fork of Django" is a big statement. Part of that discomfort comes from a sense that the collective effort into Django is…

Hey! I'm the creator (fork-er?) of Plain. I have mixed feelings too — if all this does is help spur some new activity around Django, that would be a good outcome!

Re: Plain – a web framework for building products with Python

#146

Post by mrits »

timkofu wrote: post #143

I’ve been using Django several years now. It works. Some things could be more straightforward, but once they work, they’re stable. I’ll keep an open mind though.

The older I get the more I want to be able to come back to code a few years later and not have to relearn the same framework

Re: Plain – a web framework for building products with Python

#148

Post by nop_slide »

I appreciate this effort and am surprised by the negative sentiment. I evaluated the big 3 frameworks (Laravel, Django, and Rails) last year and Django felt like the worst of the lot.

I really wanted to like Django more since I use python at $dayjob, but it seemed so far behind Laravel and Rails terms of DX and features. Also the ecosystem seemed fragmented and a lot of packages looked stale.

For example, I remember having to piece together a static files pipeline for Django with whitenoise, how is that not included by default?

Additionally the issues around the user model are bizarre, near the very end of the docs they tell you to override the user model to fix it. Wat.

Lastly Django templates felt super limiting, Livewire/Laravel and Hotwire/Rails gives you so much out of the box.

I ended up choosing Rails to start building side web apps, their move to SQLite-first and the whole “Solid” suite of tools is rad. Specifically Solid Queue is awesome! I noped out of Django when I saw how intense the docs for setting up celery were.

Hoping this spurs some activity in the Django-sphere, I would love if Django felt more complete like Rails!

Re: Plain – a web framework for building products with Python

#149

Post by zzzeek »

miiiiiike wrote: post #104
miiiiiike wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw the talk last year. Let's do it. If I had $100,000 to spare I would give it to Django as an unrestricted donation. It would be worth every penny. But I'm a solo-dev and don't have that kind of cash on me. Here's what I can do. I will send you $1,000 today if you can get something like a `django.contrib.rest` package (i.e. official rest api support) on the roadmap and secure matching funds. I'll make it a recurr…

Another project I'd fund: Making Django an async-first (not async-only) framework over the next decade. It's easier to mix sync code into async than the other way around.

So glad that's not actually true so I didn't have to rewrite sqlalchemy from scratch

Re: Plain – a web framework for building products with Python

#150

Post by infamia »

petr25102018 wrote: post #64
sroerick wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on this? What paradigms do you think are outdated? Generally speaking, I think Django has lagged a bit behind other frameworks. However, the continued advantage of being Python driven has left it useful in my book when working with Python data utilities in the back end. What’s your perspective here?

It would be a long list. I will post some examples but you can summarize it as "Django is not ideal choice to build a modern SAAS applications" and "Django developer experience is lacking". 1. REST/HTTP API building needs to be built in for a batteries included framework. In 2025 it is already so so late. REST Framework is "finished" and even if it wasn't the third-party extensions including Ninja feel alien. They ne…

Regarding #3, you can already do this with Jinja2 template functions perfectly well. You can also do it with template tags, but it isnt as nice.

100% agree with #5, the diaspora of Django's community, dev process, and lack of a single decision maker when consensus isn't quickly reached, makes it virtually impossible to correct past mistakes.

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