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Apple Exclaves

randomaugustine.medium.com

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Re: Apple Exclaves

#141

Post by api »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #134
api wrote: post #117

We could have avoided so much hardware and OS complexity if we'd instead (mostly) discarded the idea of shipping and running compiled code directly on the hardware. TL;DR: we are doing things in hardware that ought to be done in software, and we're giving software too close to metal access. User mode should be something like the JVM, but more language-neutral, something based around WASM for example. The runtime for…

So your solution is to nerf the computer in terms of both performance and functionality? There is a lot of software that cannot be properly written without being very close to the metal e.g. database kernels.

There would almost certainly be an escape hatch, but it would require user approval to run native code. It would probably be in the form of libraries that could be 'blessed' to run native. The vast majority of software does not need this.

Re: Apple Exclaves

#142

Post by KerrAvon »

reaperducer wrote: post #132
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the things about Tim Cook, that people don’t really talk about (which, IMO, is appropriate), is that he’s openly gay. Most times, this doesn’t mean anything, but there’s very few demographics that understand the need for privacy and data protection, better than gay folks. Of course, he’s still at the whim of the Board, and he’s no spring chicken, so there’s no guarantee that his successor would feel the same,…

One of the things about Tim Cook, that people don’t really talk about (which, IMO, is appropriate), is that he’s openly gay. Most times, this doesn’t mean anything, but there’s very few demographics that understand the need for privacy and data protection, better than gay folks. I used to think this, too. His recent ring-kissing antics have changed my mind. He, too, can be bought for a price. You don't write a check…

Genuine question: what would you have him do at that point instead? It’s notable that he did that after all the other billionaires did it. Apple can’t go alone on this, they’d be taken apart by a right wing smear campaign (and possibly violence against Apple stores — how many thousands of Apple employees would be affected?).

Collective action, even in corporate America, is required to beat these people. The failure here is that like-minded execs didn’t preemptively gather to prevent this outcome in the first place. If you want to be unhappy with Tim Cook, be unhappy that he was too politically naive for too long.

Re: Apple Exclaves

#143

Post by KerrAvon »

al_borland wrote: post #61
astrange wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's definitely misunderstood. If you read his biography it's incredible how much the author of it misunderstands, but if you read between the lines you can see through them. In particular you should note how he changes before and after getting married. The biography is really awful though. It constantly misquotes people - Bill Gates is directly quoted as saying something so technically inaccurate he can't possibly h…

I don’t remember many details from the biography at this point, but I remember not liking it either. It seemed like it was written with the assumption the reader already knew the about Steve’s more public life and career, and skipped over much of it. It didn’t feel like it would be a good source for future generations to learn about Steve, as it seemed to largely ignore the entire reason a book was being written abou…

I second “Becoming Steve Jobs.” It actually gives insight into him, rather than just regurgitating what Isaacson thinks are the facts.

Re: Apple Exclaves

#144

Post by linux2647 »

lambdaone wrote: post #114

I'm quite surprised that they use a secure exclave to control the physical camera LED - this is absolutely massive overengineering to do something very simple. A tiny bit of hardwired dedicated logic integrated into the camera module would be more than adequate to do this - just gating of either the digital I/O or the power to the camera, and a pulse-stretcher so the LED goes on for at least a few seconds each time t…

I think it’s not just the camera LED, but the indicators that appear on screen, like the amber, green, or blue dots that appear in the menu bar when the microphone, camera, or screen recording are accessed by apps.

Re: Apple Exclaves

#145

Post by Vendan »

rollcat wrote: post #129
amelius wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who builds industrial/scientific machines, the consumer oriented devices that Apple makes are completely unusable for me. Locking down completely capable computing devices seems like such a waste. I'm also not a fan of how Apple controls devices and the market of software after the device has changed owner. I'm staying the hell away from this ecosystem. Not sure why many so-called "hackers" are so enthusia…

I'm a self-branded hacker so I'll share my motivation: Shit. Works. This is critical. I can focus on my actual task at hand, rather than fiddling with the system. Some perspective: I've been on Debian for 15 years, and I still hold it in very high regard for servers. I'm also an occasional Alpine & OpenBSD user; and Windows for games. I've tried Ubuntu, couldn't stop it from getting in my way. Before you suggest Fedo…

I'm a software engineer at a company that does all macbooks. I hate my M1 macbook because it's way less reliable then my desktop, both software and hardware. I have to hold the power button to force it off roughly twice a month, it absolutely refuses to play nice with my KVM (that my desktop has no issues with), and the "keyboard secure input" feature regularly goes on the fritz and breaks anything that taps into the keyboard, including stuff that I've specifically installed.

Re: Apple Exclaves

#146

Post by supriyo-biswas »

lambdaone wrote: post #114

I'm quite surprised that they use a secure exclave to control the physical camera LED - this is absolutely massive overengineering to do something very simple. A tiny bit of hardwired dedicated logic integrated into the camera module would be more than adequate to do this - just gating of either the digital I/O or the power to the camera, and a pulse-stretcher so the LED goes on for at least a few seconds each time t…

> just gating of either the digital I/O or the power to the camera, and a pulse-stretcher so the LED goes on for at least a few seconds each time to prevent an attack by rapidly flicking the camera logic on and off.

They'd be unable to roll out the feature to older iPhones if they did this.

I guess for newer iPhones this is not as big of a deal since they have a big-ass notch anyway, however Apple also has a large customer base that only buys their older products (like me), and saying that their older products have worse security than their newer ones is probably not the kind of message they want to send, even if it might potentially get them some new sales.

Re: Apple Exclaves

#147

Post by supriyo-biswas »

Vendan wrote: post #145
rollcat wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a self-branded hacker so I'll share my motivation: Shit. Works. This is critical. I can focus on my actual task at hand, rather than fiddling with the system. Some perspective: I've been on Debian for 15 years, and I still hold it in very high regard for servers. I'm also an occasional Alpine & OpenBSD user; and Windows for games. I've tried Ubuntu, couldn't stop it from getting in my way. Before you suggest Fedo…

I'm a software engineer at a company that does all macbooks. I hate my M1 macbook because it's way less reliable then my desktop, both software and hardware. I have to hold the power button to force it off roughly twice a month, it absolutely refuses to play nice with my KVM (that my desktop has no issues with), and the "keyboard secure input" feature regularly goes on the fritz and breaks anything that taps into the…

Much of these complaints are usually better directed at Crowdstrike and other EDRs. The performance difference between my employer-provided Macbook and my personal one are like night and day.

Re: Apple Exclaves

#148

Post by al_borland »

alpaca128 wrote: post #95
al_borland wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t remember many details from the biography at this point, but I remember not liking it either. It seemed like it was written with the assumption the reader already knew the about Steve’s more public life and career, and skipped over much of it. It didn’t feel like it would be a good source for future generations to learn about Steve, as it seemed to largely ignore the entire reason a book was being written abou…

> I also remembering it seeming largely negative It definitely was, but at least parts of that must have been warranted given Jobs refused to read it, saying something along the lines of "I know I wouldn’t like what it says"

I think that was him trusting the author to be fair and show a balanced view of who he was; maybe that trust was misplaced.

Re: Apple Exclaves

#149

Post by al_borland »

KerrAvon wrote: post #143
al_borland wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t remember many details from the biography at this point, but I remember not liking it either. It seemed like it was written with the assumption the reader already knew the about Steve’s more public life and career, and skipped over much of it. It didn’t feel like it would be a good source for future generations to learn about Steve, as it seemed to largely ignore the entire reason a book was being written abou…

I second “Becoming Steve Jobs.” It actually gives insight into him, rather than just regurgitating what Isaacson thinks are the facts.

Thanks, I’ll check it out.

Re: Apple Exclaves

#150

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

JadeNB wrote: post #139
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stallman is a brilliant and passionate chap, but he's also a lifelong academic, and has very different life priorities than people that need to make a living at shipping things. He's one end of the spectrum, and NSO is at the other end. The best place is somewhere in the middle.

> NSO is at the other end. I thought I was familiar with the really big players in the privacy/anti-privacy space, but I don't know this one. What is NSO? These guys https://www.nsogroup.com/ ?

Yeah. They are about as far away from "freedom" and "privacy" as you can get.
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