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Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

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Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#141

Post by peterfirefly »

etchalon wrote: post #90
normalaccess wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure it's the de facto right thing to do. Recall that the USA didn't tax income until 1913, relying primarily on tariffs and excise taxes to fund the federal government. And yet, the country was doing just fine before that—expanding its infrastructure, winning wars, and growing its economy. The introduction of income tax fundamentally changed the size and scope of government. With the current size of federal…

"Doing just fine before that" is an interesting interpretation of history.

The problem was low average productivity naturally leading to low average consumption. The problem was not low taxation.

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#142

Post by [deleted] »

SeanAnderson wrote: post #8

I wish this article was written with a less biased tone. I'm genuinely interested in understanding it better. As far as I can tell, the article cites two things: $500M tax savings by using an accelerated depreciation schedule (unclear if they saved $500M more by using accelerated vs a regular depreciation schedule, but I assume no) and they claimed $300M in tax credits. The article doesn't address the other $1.5B, pr…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#143

Post by aidenn0 »

ssklash wrote: post #9
erulabs wrote: post #4

> "hoard wealth" > No mention of reinvestment > "Tesla was able to avoid paying ... taxes ... by claiming ... tax credits" (presented as bad somehow) > "We're not backing down" Where or where is the media coverage that attempts to speak to people who don't already buy in to the premise? This isn't journalism it might as well be blogging. Congratulations, you've made the world more polarized!

In what world is a massively profitable company paying almost nothing in taxes polarizing?

Tesla pays lots of taxes. They pay payroll taxes om their employees, they pay state sales taxes when they sell cars, &c.

This is specifically corporate income taxes.

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#144

Post by ribosometronome »

Negitivefrags wrote: post #112
zelon88 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In reality, what is more damaging for the environment? Replacing a 2019 Toyota Rav4 with a 2025 Tesla in North America, or..... Replacing a 1985 VW Jetta with a 2019 Toyota Rav4 in India? I see YouTube videos all the time where people in third world countries are using turn of the century hit-and-miss engines to power things like water pumps or machine tools. These countries are leaking countless gallons of oil and f…

Every car that is sold retires an old one. And the one it retires will be the least valuable. This happens becauase the person who buys a new car sells their old one to someone else, who sells their old one to someone else, and so on down the chain. The oldest cars from America go to other cheaper markets replacing the cars in use there.

>Every car that is sold retires an old one.

I'm about to purchase my first car, a Tesla! Whose vehicle will be retired by my purchase?

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#145

Post by aidenn0 »

wongarsu wrote: post #76
Dylan16807 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they depreciated some assets faster, that only delays the taxes by a year or two. They'll still pay. $300M in tax credits is basically the same as them paying $300M in tax and then getting a big check from the government for meeting some goal. I don't think it should be treated as any kind of avoidance on behalf of the company. Instead, check if the government paid that money for something useful, and if they didn…

Maybe they assume tax rates will be better for them in 2026. Under that assumption, deprecating things now to shift the tax burden to the future is kind of avoiding tax (or more accurately: the 2024 tax rates). Given the level of corruption in the US government in general and the role of Musk in the current administration in particular that doesn't seem unlikely to me

I mean you don't have to exactly be a government insider to bet that, at a minimum, corporate taxes won't go up under the current administration.

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#146

Post by HamsterDan »

dutchbookmaker wrote: post #88
casenmgreen wrote: post #3

I may be wrong, but I understand this is because the company invests all of its income into its business - which means more jobs, work for other companies, and so on. I think it better money goes into the economy, in a reasonably efficient way, rather than being taken by the State, and used in an unreasonably inefficient way.

It is especially absurd though when you have a business that depends on ROADS. As if the roads just pay for themselves.

In my state, many of the new roads being built do in fact pay for themselves via tolls. I expect that model of financing to get much more common now that computers are able to automatically read your license plate and issue the toll.

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#147

Post by iforgot22 »

Aurornis wrote: post #95
ssklash wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what world is a massively profitable company paying almost nothing in taxes polarizing?

> In what world is a massively profitable company paying almost nothing in taxes polarizing? I mean they didn't just decide not to pay taxes. They followed the tax law. They accelerated some depreciation to take it now at the expense of a higher tax bill later. They took advantage of some government credits. Corporate taxation is only one point of taxation. They pay payroll taxes, they pay sales tax on equipment they…

Something is wrong with the tax law if this is an accounting trick that only a few companies can use this effectively, which I suspect it is. I also suspect that the CEO of Tesla supposedly being placed in charge of federal agencies will somehow reduce that future tax bill. Corporate tax doesn't have to be a thing, but if it is, it needs to be applied fairly.

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#148

Post by ribosometronome »

linksnapzz wrote: post #121
lesuorac wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's the thing, if I take my entire salary and lose it gambling I still owe the government taxes. I the person am taxed on revenue. If instead I have a corporation handle everything then I can come up with (relatively simple) systems so that I don't pay taxes and the corporation doesn't pay taxes either.

Gambling isn't considered an investment. It's consumption.

You asked:

>How much in taxes should you pay on a loss?

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#149

Post by [deleted] »

ribosometronome wrote: post #144
Negitivefrags wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every car that is sold retires an old one. And the one it retires will be the least valuable. This happens becauase the person who buys a new car sells their old one to someone else, who sells their old one to someone else, and so on down the chain. The oldest cars from America go to other cheaper markets replacing the cars in use there.

>Every car that is sold retires an old one. I'm about to purchase my first car, a Tesla! Whose vehicle will be retired by my purchase?

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#150

Post by ribosometronome »

kstrauser wrote: post #104
anon-3988 wrote: post #42

Can a private citizen do the same things that companies do? People reinvest in themselves too.

Sure, especially if they own a corporation. My wife’s business was a net loss for a couple of years during COVID. We scrounged by on my salary so she could keep her employees and not close down for good. It got better, but our net income was negative even though we had what looked like a decent chunk of revenue. I’m glad we were taxed on net, not gross.

They were asking about private citizens, not corporations. Your wife isn't a corporation, is she?
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