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Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

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Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#91

Post by roenxi »

OnlineGladiator wrote: post #57
lvl155 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry for the political comment but every time I see Tesla financials I think “this company should’ve failed in 2014 but-for those subsidies and ill-conceived carbon credits.”

And the only reason most domestic airlines, car manufacturers, and some of the largest financial institutions still exist is because of multiple bailouts. It's not like Tesla is unique in being helped by the government.

Indeed. If the government makes a habit of bailing out all the failures, eventually the system will be dominated by failures because they never get cleaned out.

Still doesn't imply that bailing out failures was a good idea though.

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#92

Post by cma »

bradac56 wrote: post #46
cma wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing in a different year the rate will be much lower: afterall, he gave away $1 million a day to a random registered republican voter in a key swing state to get around laws that prevent buying votes and paying people to register to vote.

That was with his money (you know richest person on the planet) and had nothing to do with Tesla.

Ah I forgot his money has nothing to do with tesla and he doesn't run tesla or have a huge stake in it. And he in no way benefits from how future tax changes affect them, right?

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#93

Post by Dylan16807 »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #86
SeanAnderson wrote: post #8

I wish this article was written with a less biased tone. I'm genuinely interested in understanding it better. As far as I can tell, the article cites two things: $500M tax savings by using an accelerated depreciation schedule (unclear if they saved $500M more by using accelerated vs a regular depreciation schedule, but I assume no) and they claimed $300M in tax credits. The article doesn't address the other $1.5B, pr…

Tesla's a crypto company. 25% of Tesla's earnings last quarter were crypto: https://cointelegraph.com/news/tesla-600-million-bitcoin-gai...

That's multiple years of increase being accounted for all at once.

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#94

Post by roenxi »

sangnoir wrote: post #60
linksnapzz wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much in taxes should you pay on a loss?

Is this a trick question about Hollywood accounting?

It isn't Hollywood accounting, it is just that Tesla isn't very profitable once the proper accounting is done. If you tax profits and companies don't have a lot of them then they won't pay taxes. Particularly if the government puts tax incentives in place to encourage people to go in to solar and EVs.

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#95

Post by Aurornis »

ssklash wrote: post #9
erulabs wrote: post #4

> "hoard wealth" > No mention of reinvestment > "Tesla was able to avoid paying ... taxes ... by claiming ... tax credits" (presented as bad somehow) > "We're not backing down" Where or where is the media coverage that attempts to speak to people who don't already buy in to the premise? This isn't journalism it might as well be blogging. Congratulations, you've made the world more polarized!

In what world is a massively profitable company paying almost nothing in taxes polarizing?

> In what world is a massively profitable company paying almost nothing in taxes polarizing?

I mean they didn't just decide not to pay taxes. They followed the tax law. They accelerated some depreciation to take it now at the expense of a higher tax bill later. They took advantage of some government credits.

Corporate taxation is only one point of taxation. They pay payroll taxes, they pay sales tax on equipment they purchase at their factories, their employees pay taxes when they get paid.

Low corporate tax rates are unpopular because the optics are bad, but it doesn't actually mean that money is flowing through the company and into their employees without taxation anywhere. As soon as they do nearly anything with that money other than buy more parts to sell, taxes are being paid.

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#97

Post by chrislongss »

jldugger wrote: post #25
erulabs wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to come into the article believing a ton of things: 1. Tax credits are illegitimate 2. Accelerated depreciation is illegitimate 3. Ownership of productive companies is "hoarding wealth" 4. Journalism is in a battle with the current administration 5. Paying taxes is a good thing If you _don't_ buy into these premises, for which there is no argument given for or against, you'll be tilted against the author. If…

> 4. Journalism is in a battle with the current administration Is this controversial?

Yes, as it should be. Criticize the policies, not an administration led by a party you don't align with.

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#98

Post by zelon88 »

gonzobonzo wrote: post #41
SeanAnderson wrote: post #8

I wish this article was written with a less biased tone. I'm genuinely interested in understanding it better. As far as I can tell, the article cites two things: $500M tax savings by using an accelerated depreciation schedule (unclear if they saved $500M more by using accelerated vs a regular depreciation schedule, but I assume no) and they claimed $300M in tax credits. The article doesn't address the other $1.5B, pr…

> Tax credits seem to make sense for an EV company? That's one of the things that I've found odd. A lot of people that very strongly support things like tax credits for EV cars, in order to fight climate change, will then turn around and talk about how terrible they are when they're actually used, such as in the article here. A lot of times people don't seem to have a consistent view of what they actually want, and w…

In reality, what is more damaging for the environment?

Replacing a 2019 Toyota Rav4 with a 2025 Tesla in North America, or.....

Replacing a 1985 VW Jetta with a 2019 Toyota Rav4 in India?

I see YouTube videos all the time where people in third world countries are using turn of the century hit-and-miss engines to power things like water pumps or machine tools. These countries are leaking countless gallons of oil and fuel into the ground using engines and equipment that are over 100 years old when Habor Freight sells brand new engines for $150.

To me, the ease with which you can sell a new car to a yuppy in the USA (who doesn't even need a new car) is baffling. Dollar for dollar, there is so much low hanging fruit. Don't get me wrong, I want to see first world countries lead the charge, but yuppys need to be more realistic in their "environmental" decision making. There is nothing frugal or environmental about having a 20" touch screen in the dash, or replacing your >5 year old car.

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#99

Post by asdasdsddd »

scheme271 wrote: post #44
fishtoaster wrote: post #6

Sounds like this is the result of "accelerated depreciation." As far as I can tell, that's a strategy that ultimately allows you to pay less tax one year and more tax in a later year. I don't have a strong feeling on the value of that particular tax law, but it seems somewhat less nefarious than the implied "not paying taxes at all."

I think this is a tax avoidance strategy that may save a lot on taxes. E.g. use accelerated depreciation to avoid taxes in a really profitable year and then if you have a loss or much lower profit in a subsequent year, you have successfully avoided a bunch of taxes. Not an accountant or tax lawyer so there may be a catch here.

That makes no sense, the integral of the tax credit is always the total value of the asset so it doesn't matter unless there are relevant tax brackets here? Businesses can also carryforward losses right?

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#100

Post by steve_adams_86 »

shiftpgdn wrote: post #54
whoknowsidont wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not rage-bait, it's a practical example of both how bad the tax code is and most topically how abusive Tesla is to the country that "hosts" it. Also there's really no such thing as fiduciary duty in public companies, not to the degree you're talking about or it's implied actions. I wish people would stop repeating it in that fashion, it's just a thought-terminating cliche. Violating fiduciary duty would be somet…

[flagged]

At the very least, corporations must realize that they only function due to the commons. Tesla needs people to have roads to drive on, no? They require their supplies, workers, and goods to travel by roads to facilitate the work they do. Can't the company chip in a bit to ensure Americans have the infrastructure required to use their products?

It's arguably negligent to stockholders to run a socially unsustainable business, but they look at things in terms of quarters rather than 10 years from now, so...

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