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Smart TVs take snapshots of what you watch multiple times per second

newscientist.com

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Re: Smart TVs take snapshots of what you watch multiple times per second

#141

Post by rbanffy »

flacebo wrote: post #54
Meniceses wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A SmartTV is not a problem as long as it has HDMI Input. You don't like your SmartTV? Switch to HDMI Input and use your device. I find it very practical that my LG Smart TV has the normal core apps available and i do not want to have a second remote.

Sure, it's practical, that's why most people don't have a separate smart box. That's why I called it a curse, because most people are being nagged with ads and being tracked on a level the article talks about. Smart boxes can communicate with the TV (HDMI-CEC), and you don't have to ever use the TV's remote. If the box turns on, it turns on the TV and switches the source. Same with turn off. If you cast a youtube vid…

> Oh wait, I just remembered regular TV channels exist

I don't think I have watched one in almost a decade.

Re: Smart TVs take snapshots of what you watch multiple times per second

#142

Post by rbanffy »

ortusdux wrote: post #98

I just want a somewhat trustworthy organization to develop a "DUMB" certification. I will pay extra for a certified DUMB TV.

> I will pay extra for a certified DUMB TV.

We used to call them monitors [1], but a dumb TV at TV prices would be very appealing. Even more so because, with the smaller board brains, it might have more space for different inputs.

[1] https://www.dell.com/en-ie/shop/dell-86-4k-interactive-touch... seems a little bit too smart. It's funny when you need to get rid of a monitor because it "knows too much"...

Re: Smart TVs take snapshots of what you watch multiple times per second

#143

Post by rbanffy »

rcarmo wrote: post #136
PenguinCoder wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at digital signage monitors. Even with that classification they have HDMI and some have WiFi.

Some of them lack the right flavors of HDCP.

Also way more expensive than TVs.

Shouldn't be that hard to build a replacement board for popular sets. There are replacement electronics for analog CRT-based TVs.

Re: Smart TVs take snapshots of what you watch multiple times per second

#144

Post by rbanffy »

mkl wrote: post #128
Someone1234 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're linking to a random forum post as "proof?" If this was a widespread problem, we'd know it, but all we get is conspiracies which this is.

Kind of the opposite. I had heard of it happening, so looked for evidence, and found that HN post asking for evidence, with that random post seemingly the only bit supplied.

Shouldn't be hard to honeypot your TV into doing that - just set up a network and check if the TV connects to it, or set up sniffing at the gateway and see if there's any traffic that seems unaccounted for (as in not coming from your set-top box and suspiciously large for the periodic software update checks).

Re: Smart TVs take snapshots of what you watch multiple times per second

#145

Post by xnx »

unsnap_biceps wrote: post #109
allturtles wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not to mention even the most expensive TVs come with baffingly slow hardware and software. $2k devices can take 10+ seconds to load the menu with 4 options, where you can modify picture settings. Incredible. Yes it's really curious how much worse technology has gotten in some dimensions in recent decades. Analog TVs would respond to inputs effectively instantaneously - if you changed the channel, the very next fram…

Analog tvs would change in the middle of frames if you swapped channels. Digital tvs are cursed to wait for the next key frame in the video to start displaying and providers are a-okay with very long waits for key frames as it improves their encoding efficiency and thus allows them to squeeze more channels on the lines. It's apples to oranges sadly.

> Digital tvs are cursed to wait for the next key frame in the video to start displaying

If they chose too, couldn't TV decoders pretend to have a all-gray keyframe as a starting point and apply the streaming diffs to that until the next true keyframe came? That would at least give some garbled image before snapping in. I'm sure most consumers would consider this "broken" though.

Re: Smart TVs take snapshots of what you watch multiple times per second

#146

Post by xnx »

abenga wrote: post #137
kitd wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One benefit of a separate device, especially a small one like a Roku or Firestick, is you can take it on holiday with you to access all your services while away (assuming your destination has a TV with HDMI).

I would be terrified of leaving such a device every time I go somewhere, considering the ports are invariably behind the screen.

Tether it to something you can't forget like your bag.

Re: Smart TVs take snapshots of what you watch multiple times per second

#147

Post by ranger_danger »

maximus-decimus wrote: post #70
hosteur wrote: post #47

This should be illegal

You would really think spying inside somebody's home would already be illegal.

Pretty sure they agreed to it. Whether or not that's actually enforceable will have to wait for a lawsuit and then a judge to decide. (You can't just say all EULA's are unenforceable)

Re: Smart TVs take snapshots of what you watch multiple times per second

#148

Post by ranger_danger »

eimrine wrote: post #32
shiroiushi wrote: post #10

Someone needs to put a network sniffer on a bunch of different TVs and see exactly what traffic they're generating and how much. Sending 120 4k images per minute (or worse, 6000 for the LG) on a residential WiFi connection should be pretty obvious, and it should be fairly easy to block too.

What if any traffic is encrypted? Taking snapshots is not sending them in the meaning that software can delete similarly looking images by their own definition of similarness. And BTW that kind of testing is more needed for some industry critical equipment - processors with ME, routers, etc. TV is a brainrot thing for dumbs, nobody needs a TV which doesn't spy you.

If by encrypted you mean regular TLS, there's still ways to sniff it in many cases. Most smart TVs run an open source OS after all.

What's worse is if they decide to encode the tracking data as something that looks innocuous so that nobody even notices it.

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