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The demise of the mildly dynamic website (2022)

devever.net

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Re: The demise of the mildly dynamic website (2022)

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where can I get a VM in a data center that doesn't cost me anything?

cost and convenience: Time is money. Whatever works for you is more important than 5 euro.

Lambda is pretty straightforward as well for those who know how to use it.

You probably could do something marginally useful with lambda within 30 seconds as well.

Re: The demise of the mildly dynamic website (2022)

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the full quote: > For a Linux user, you can already build such a system yourself quite trivially by getting an FTP account, mounting it locally with curlftpfs, and then using SVN or CVS on the mounted filesystem. From Windows or Mac, this FTP account could be accessed through built-in software. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8863

Which is 100% true. And it's also true Dropbox was a great product because it provided this functionality for the vast majority of the population who don't have the time or interest to learn all those tools.

You missed the point. It's usability rather than functionality. I can 100% do all of this but there is no chance I would choose this over OneDrive/Dropbox etc.

Although there are new functionalities from Dropbox -- (easy) online access, apps, preview, on-demand access, (presumably) redundancy on the server etc

Re: The demise of the mildly dynamic website (2022)

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shared hosting is probably better, and AFAIK more common, for the mildly dynamic website. The host handles a lot of the admin tasks like OS updates that you have to handle yourself with a VPS.

When I was checking out the grav flat-file CMS, they had a recommendation for PaaS (php as a service) https://learn.getgrav.org/16/webservers-hosting

As much as i love every P standing for PHP, "PaaS" usually means Platform as a Service

Re: The demise of the mildly dynamic website (2022)

#144
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(too long... here's part 2): 4) Serverless as "CGI but it's trendy, [with vendor lock-in and a more complex deployment process]" What vendor lock-in? Most of the code is just vanilla JS. There might be a different deployment procedure if you're using Cloudflare vs Lambda vs Vercel vs Serverless Framework, but those are typically still simpler than having to set up an SFTP connection or git repo in a remote folder. Wi…

Thank you for that lengthy diatribe, which I heartily agree with. It's really all about separation of concerns.

Lol, yeah, sorry, I really gotta work on brevity...

> It's really all about separation of concerns.

Exactly!

Re: The demise of the mildly dynamic website (2022)

#145
post #14

I think the spirit of this article is correct, although some of the digs at modern web tech and SPAs seem to be beside the point. I used to have a "mildly dynamic website." It was a $5 digital ocean box. It ran nginx with php-fpm, mostly so it could have a Wordpress install in a subdirectory, and it had a unicorn setup for an experimental Rails app somewhere in there. Given that environment, the "mildly dynamic websi…

>and decided to switch to static HTML sites on S3 it's really hard to overstate how great s3 sites are with cloudfront in front of them. mine costs me the added complexity for any level of dynamic-ness is really just not worth it, unless i'm going to go to the trouble of making a full-on app that needs a revenue model.

Similarly, Github Pages are great. You get rudimentary dynamic support by using a static site generator if you need it.

Re: The demise of the mildly dynamic website (2022)

#146
I know why I no longer have a mildly dynamic website: the security risk of PHP is not linear.

That’s where Javascript shines: if you avoid comments (those are actually a hard problem: a social one) and server-side data (security risk), it actually has this linear increase in effort without the jump in security risk.

And this risk has increased a lot since the early mildly dynamic websites.

Re: The demise of the mildly dynamic website (2022)

#147

Semi-related: what's the best place to learn the old school style of working with php, I already know laravel but it feels so far removed from normal php that I am not confident working with it on it's own.

0. Forget everything you know about php and programming in general really. 1. Make a simple web page in an html file 2. rename it to .php 3. then throw in some tags 4. Look up [include](https://www.php.net/manual/en/function.include.php) and not much more 5. PROFIT

At least that's how I remember writing php in high school.

Re: The demise of the mildly dynamic website (2022)

#148
Looking stuff up in an SQL DB and showing it to the masses (wordpress) is not very dynamic.

But, neither is deploying neko the cat to sleep on your cursor, or the dancing turtle of Kame-IPv6.

Intruding PHP into the actual FQDN of the web, and making 3x4.ARITHMETIC.EXAMPLE.COM work as a calculator, now thats dynamic.

REST is pretty dynamic. If I GET it and then POST it back with changes, I feel like I've had a good day.

I personally hate the cursor implicit in tabular data websites. There should be a normative "no cursor" mode to just get all the damn data not the page management requirement.

Riddle me this: How does "the independent" newspaper create a high visual content web which on my tablet appears to render INSTANTLY and yet has 100 points of image and text? it loads faster than almost any other site. It also kills my CPU and is a terrible design, but my goodness it's fast.

Re: The demise of the mildly dynamic website (2022)

#149
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you add API gateway, IAM roles/permissions, VPC, security groups, it gets a lot more complicated. Then you want to host a static web site, reverse proxying to API gateway, add CloudFront, WAF, etc. You'll go crazy setting this up manually, so you'll also want Terraform or CloudFormation to make it repeatable. For anything complex, you'll run into "slow start" issues and have to look at provisioned concurrency. L…

Yeah, it's an absolute explosion of complexity, and with it comes the risk that you miss something and are faced with a security issue or giant bill or both. What I would kill for is something in between all of this and FTPing PHP around like it's 1999. I've hunted for years for middle-ground solutions and haven't found anything. Security, cost, performance etc are important, sure, but what I really yearn for is a si…

Actually they don't, at least most of the time.

At my last shop the entry cost for hosting a single static file was around $2500 for infra, because that was the agreed upon template for a project that was pre-approved by all neccessary committees. I've tried to fixed it for quite some time, presented solution to C level, got some initial funding, but eventually after many pushbacks I died on that hill.

People like to play with toys, cv driven developement is a real thing, and when it comes to security and compliance everyone want to be sainter than the pope, just in case.

Re: The demise of the mildly dynamic website (2022)

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Years ago a Digital Ocean virtual server of mine stopped working because I had never upgraded Ubuntu to the newest major version. After a few years, the version of Ubuntu was no longer supported by the Digital Ocean hypervisor and couldn't mount or boot at all. In my experience, yes you absolutely need maintenance. In the past I've had to upgrade from HTTP to HTTPS, upgrade the OS, upgrade to newer versions of extern…

These are all problems that shouldn’t exist. You have succinctly described the problems with modern IT. Software doesn’t need to have an expiration date. It doesn’t decay or expire. But because of our endless need to change things, rather than just fix bugs, we end up with this precarious tower of cards. If, as an industry, we focussed on correctness and reliability over features, a lot of these problems would disapp…

Yes, these problems shouldn’t exist. But they do.

One of the big strength of the Web is the commitment of Mozilla „do not break the web“.

But this is hitting its limits, because the scope of Javascript is being expanded more and more (including stuff like filesystem APIs for almost arbitrary file access — as if we had not learned from Java WebStart that that’s a rabbit hole that never stops gifting vulnerabilities), so to keep new features safe despite their much higher security needs, old features are neutered.

I lost a decentralized comment system to similar changes.

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