Earlier quoted context omitted.
In plain English: unwanted tail waggle
"Tail lefty-righty no-no" is the industry term.
That's plane English.
Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll
141–150 of 240 posts
Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll
#142"Dutch Roll is a coupled out of phase movement of the aircraft as result of weakened directional stability (provided by the vertical tail and rudder), in which the aircraft oscillates around its vertical as well as longitudinal axis (coupled yaw and roll)." That sounds pretty scary. I wonder why it wasn't bigger news when it happened last month?
Not as scary as flying upside down which is what I originally thought based on title alone. Most people are familiar with "barrel roll" but by comparison this just looks like wiggling. Counterintuitively though my understanding is that barrel rolls are generally safe even for large planes since it's a stable 1G maneuver (some jock irresponsible air force pilot used to regularly barrel roll B-52s until he did one too…
> it's a stable 1G maneuver
It’s positive G, but 0.5 up to 2G (otherwise, given that lift is “towards the ceiling of the plane”, so not always straight up during the manoeuvre, you’d accelerate downward, and arresting the fall requires >1G).
Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll
#143"Dutch Roll is a coupled out of phase movement of the aircraft as result of weakened directional stability (provided by the vertical tail and rudder), in which the aircraft oscillates around its vertical as well as longitudinal axis (coupled yaw and roll)." That sounds pretty scary. I wonder why it wasn't bigger news when it happened last month?
Just flew a Max from Denver to Mexico City a couple days back. It was mostly uneventful, but as we were preparing to land the aircraft banked hard to the left and began to experience something akin to this...like it hit a sudden pocket of turbulence at the apex of the turn and began to pogo around. It was minor and far from inducing damage to the vehicle, but in that moment remembered where I was while clenching my b…
I had a similar experience as a child flying into Phoenix... there were heavy storms and about 100ft from the ground, the plane just shifted to the side several hundred feet... the pilot pulled back up and had to circle around the airport for another landing approach. Kinda wild.
Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not as scary as flying upside down which is what I originally thought based on title alone. Most people are familiar with "barrel roll" but by comparison this just looks like wiggling. Counterintuitively though my understanding is that barrel rolls are generally safe even for large planes since it's a stable 1G maneuver (some jock irresponsible air force pilot used to regularly barrel roll B-52s until he did one too…
That depends on what you mean by “generally safe”. Airline jets are not made to withstand the forces of an aerobatic maneuver and while they can do it in test flight conditions, each time requires pulling the jet out of service afterwards for a full structural inspection.
A barrel roll is a 1-G maneuver and will not overstress an aircraft unless done improperly.
Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll
#145It kinda bothers me that airlines are still placing orders for new Boeing airplanes. Taking delivery of old orders is one thing, since they can't really back out of those, but placing new orders implies that some level of trust remains for this company, and I just don't see how that makes any sense at all?
The Max 8 are great planes. I rode one recently, in fact it was with Southwest, it was probably the best plane I flown in. Lots of space, comfortable and quiet.
They just need to fix the bad part issues they seem to have.
Personally, I would fly on a Max 8 again.
Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll
#146As a Dutchman the endless list of apparent “Dutch” things never ceases to surprise me. Uncles, courage, ovens, double, going, etc., and a new one to my list: rolls. And none of them means any good.
> And none of them means any good.
Dude, Dutch ovens are awesome. One of the most useful cooking tools imo.
Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll
#147Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll
#148"Dutch Roll is a coupled out of phase movement of the aircraft as result of weakened directional stability (provided by the vertical tail and rudder), in which the aircraft oscillates around its vertical as well as longitudinal axis (coupled yaw and roll)." That sounds pretty scary. I wonder why it wasn't bigger news when it happened last month?
Not as scary as flying upside down which is what I originally thought based on title alone. Most people are familiar with "barrel roll" but by comparison this just looks like wiggling. Counterintuitively though my understanding is that barrel rolls are generally safe even for large planes since it's a stable 1G maneuver (some jock irresponsible air force pilot used to regularly barrel roll B-52s until he did one too…
Probably wasn't a B52. Tex Johnston was reknowned for barrel rolling a 707 during a demo back in the day - there's grainy video of it on youtube. Apparently the Boing execs at the demo didn't know it was going to happen and nearly had heart attacks when he did.
Video on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz1Eze3QrDU
Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not as scary as flying upside down which is what I originally thought based on title alone. Most people are familiar with "barrel roll" but by comparison this just looks like wiggling. Counterintuitively though my understanding is that barrel rolls are generally safe even for large planes since it's a stable 1G maneuver (some jock irresponsible air force pilot used to regularly barrel roll B-52s until he did one too…
I'm not aware of a B-52 being crashed in a barrel roll, but this did make me think of the 1994 Fairchild crash[0] that was caused by a pilot who was known as dangerous due to excessive self confidence. In this case he banked too tightly at low level causing a stall into the ground. The whole crash was caught on camera[1], which is indelibly burnt into my memory. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Fairchild_Air_…
Man, that is just one big ass airplane to even consider wanting to do any kind of maneuvering without threat indicators blinking/buzzing/beeping/toning that your death is imminent without doing some of that "pilot shit".
The story from your [0] about one of the crew's last flight with his family on the ground waiting for the post-flight rituals where his wife and 2 kids watching is just horrific. What a fucking asshat of a person.
Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
After a quick search just now, I could not find any tweets about it
As one of the commenters to the video said:
"That is the Noon Flight from Moscow arriving as usual!"
Nothing to see here. Some bounce cars - others dutch roll planes. Personally, I am partial to the Swiss roll.