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Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

141–150 of 184 posts

Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)

#141

I notice that all of the sleep positions are either on the stomach or side. I usually go between side and stomach when sleeping, and can't really fall asleep very well on my back. But, my impression is that most people go between side and back, with stomach sleepers being a minority (I've even heard it called weird). This study backs that up (54% side, 37% back, 7% stomach) https://www.dovepress.com/sleep-positions-a…

How do you breathe when you sleep on your stomach? My back and hips feel amazing when I try it, but my neck starts to hate me from the way I have to twist around to get air.

Looks a lot like figure 4 in that article, but with my arms wrapped around a pillow. The arms hold up the head, and the neck isn't rotated so much that it hurts. There's usually a little twist at the hips, and my legs are kinda jackknifed as in the second figure 2 picture (I just noticed the caption points out how "the penis is protected from insects", ha ha). Very comfortable, though my ribs will get a little sore after a while, so I rotate with a side sleeping position throughout the night.

Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)

#142
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the article, the lookout position involves the lack of a pillow. One can imagine that the additional height of the pillow would cause you to raise your head, lower your chest, and arch your back, potentially causing the issues you reported. That being said, this is an article of anecdotal observations by a physiotherapist - it is not the result of any kind of study.

It is really thin pure goose down pillow. Folded, it is less than 1/4in when compressed. I don't think the height of the pillow makes a huge difference.

(This is my preferred type of pillow as well - an old, thin down one - and I can tell the difference when I sleep with or without it.)

Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)

#143

For my entire life I slept in one of those postures ("the lookout"). I had a bunch of problems (pain in the chest, pain in the back, some problems with my knees not loaded symmetrically, my feet getting "extended" for quite a long time causing problems with Achilles). I also had a problem with restlessness -- these positions cannot be maintained for long without moving, I would be changing my position very frequently…

As a back sleeper, get a pillow or cushion under your knees/legs. Otherwise the arch of your back is in constant stress when you sleep and can lead to back problems. You can guess how I know.

Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a human and I don't think I'd be able to make a (comfortable) pillow...

Go pull a bunch of grass, and put it in a pile. You now have a working pillow.

That doesn't sound comfortable. I'd probably rather sleep on my arm than a pile of grass...

Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)

#145
I never focussed much on sleeping postures, but one day I read this article about how acid reflux goes away if you side-sleep on your left hand side i.e stomach is at a lower height than when you sleep on your right hand side

that really changed my life, it was like, how did I waste 28 years of my life without finding this trick :D

Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Experiments are the part people fixate on. Science begins with observation.

Yes. But just publishing your observations is not enough. And this seems to be a published paper, which I find very weird.

First, you might want to refresh your understanding of the scientific process. Its first step is "Observation/question." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

Next, the acceptability of journal papers without conclusive experiments varies across fields. In some fields, such as observational sciences (e.g., astronomy, ecology, sociology), observational studies are common and valuable contributions to the literature. These studies often involve collecting and analyzing data from real-world observations, surveys, or existing datasets without the need for controlled experiments. In such cases, it is perfectly acceptable to publish papers based solely on observational data.

When you say, "is not enough," the question I respond with is "enough for what?" It's fully acceptable to publish a paper with observations in order to stimulate interest and encourage further research in the area. It's not necessary for a journal to require final results.

Finally, consider some of these famous and important papers which were published as observations without conclusive results. Should they have held back and waited until conclusive results were available?

1. Edwin Hubble's "A Relation between Distance and Radial Velocity among Extra-Galactic Nebulae"

2. Albert Einstein's "The Foundation of the General Theory of Relativity"

3. Charles Darwin's "On the Origin of Species"

Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)

#147

I am very uncomfortable with this paper to be called scientific research. It certainly appears the author had extensive life experiences, but does not demonstrate any of the data he collected. > If you are a medical professional and have been trained in a “civilised” country you probably know next to nothing about the primate Homo sapiens and how they survive in the wild. Starting off by insulting an entire populatio…

Remember that the NIH does not publish (edit: to be clearer this is the National Library of Medicine which falls under the umbrella of the NIH, and its URL), it just organizes articles like a local library but on a much larger scale. It's a common misconception. This article was published by the British Medical Journal as an interesting anecdote from a physical therapist. The NIH makes things available for searching but does not endorse anything that they have available.

Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)

#148
I am a subject of the species Sapiens, genus Homo. Subject is a civilized example of the species. An unfortunate side-effect of being civilized is an encouragement to collect paper, with which subject is to trade for essential goods. The method subject has devised to collect these trade papers involves sitting on a soft yet sturdy apparatus and being bent at an approximately 90-degree angle at the hip and knee joints, and looking at a glowing rectangle while subject taps on a noisy set of squares.

Of the unfortunate side-effects of civilization, one is risk of injury. Of the several injuries subject has sustained in this pursuit (including to eyes, fingers, wrists, and elbows) is injury to subject's neck. In particular, a musculoskeletal injury of the muscles supporting the head on the spine, due to repeated stress from looking at a downard angle at glowing rectangle, as opposed to looking straight ahead.

This injury did result in up to 11 months of recuperation. During this time period, finding a way to rest the neck and head was extremely difficult and painful. After completing several weeks' worth of paper collection, some attempts were made at recuperation outside in nature. Upon attempting to sleep on the ground, rest was significantly painful and uncomfortable. Thus were attempted many months of trial and error at attempting to find positions with which to rest in a comfortable manner, while allowing the neck to heal.

At the end of recuperation, the result of attempts at finding resting positions was quite unexpected. Rest for this subject no longer requires (nor benefits from) pillows when side-sleeping, and back-sleeping is easier, though still not preferable. The explanation for this change appears to be an adaptation in musculoskeletal alignment when sleeping. This subject now acquires a particular alignment of head, neck, spine, shoulder, chest, back, and hips, that keeps any one body part from receiving undue strain. Sleep quality is consistent with sleep quality before injury, with the benefit of no longer needing props to assist in sleep quality.

The linked article's conclusion appears to be supported by subject's experience. Subject additionally notes that a single ear is enough to be alerted to most dangers. When sleeping outside, or in an enclosed cabin, such things as mice, deer, and the occasional canid, do tend to wake the subject, as well as odd sounds such as socks falling off the bed onto a plastic bag, or elastic bed sheet end-corners snapping upwards. Whether non-h.sapiens species are also alerted to the latter sounds with one ear open has not been formally evaluated.

Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)

#149

I find this article quite insubstantial. He lists alternative sleeping positions, but no sources backing up the claim that "western sleeping positions" (whatever that is) are worse. Also only one citation, and that is to back up the claim that there are 200 primates. Nice pictures though - I feel happy that I can sit (relatively) comfortably in the squatting position (as an European).

The poor people in my country squat when they're resting. I was taught early on as a kid that I shouldn't sit like that because that's what "poor people do". I really regret listening to that piece of advice. As I observe my baby daughter, I realize how natural that squatting position is, and how much knee and hip mobility we really have.

Often the limiting factor is ankle mobility, as not being able to drive the knee in front of the toes means falling backwards as the center of mass never reaches mid foot.

It's why weightlifters have elevated heels, and why great squatters tend to have short femurs (and/or be short in general).

Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)

#150
This is so fascinating.

I slept (on my back) on the floor for a while. It was at times amazing—I would wake up and feel ready to go. Not like my muscles were weak or temporarily atrophied. Like, I didn’t know that was possible after a full nights sleep.

There seems to be so much potential in just reflecting on an considering what a “paleo” approach to something would be. And then you can just do that. You don’t even need to buy hundreds of dollars worth of supposedly ergonomic equipment. Just sleep in a funny-looking position. Just squat instead of sitting on a chair… if you can bare the social awkwardness or ridicule.

It’s so simple. Why do we make things complicated?

Well in part because “modern humans” cannot just do these things without becoming regarded as merely a modern human with eccentric hobbies. Because that’s what you get pegged as!—not as a modern human who rediscovered (through YouTube/the Web) some ancient wisdom but as a paleo-hipster, just another quirky modern human subculture.

And in part that is correct. You cannot be, say, a Western Buddhist who has all the know-how and experience of a born-in-the-culture (Asian) Buddhist. And in that same way you cannot become a non-modern… human.

But wait. Why would you want to? You are who you are. You may be a Buddhist from Scranton, PA who has no relation to Asian culture. Or an office worker who squats at the office. But why is that weird? Yeah you’re not a “real Buddhist” in that terribly essentialist sense, and you’re not a born-in-the-culture kind of human who has never used a chair. But why do you have to be that in order to make these (eccentric) choices for yourself? If it works for you, just go for it you paleo-hipster.

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