I notice that all of the sleep positions are either on the stomach or side. I usually go between side and stomach when sleeping, and can't really fall asleep very well on my back. But, my impression is that most people go between side and back, with stomach sleepers being a minority (I've even heard it called weird). This study backs that up (54% side, 37% back, 7% stomach) https://www.dovepress.com/sleep-positions-a…
How do you breathe when you sleep on your stomach? My back and hips feel amazing when I try it, but my neck starts to hate me from the way I have to twist around to get air.
Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)
141–150 of 184 posts
Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the article, the lookout position involves the lack of a pillow. One can imagine that the additional height of the pillow would cause you to raise your head, lower your chest, and arch your back, potentially causing the issues you reported. That being said, this is an article of anecdotal observations by a physiotherapist - it is not the result of any kind of study.
It is really thin pure goose down pillow. Folded, it is less than 1/4in when compressed. I don't think the height of the pillow makes a huge difference.
Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)
#143For my entire life I slept in one of those postures ("the lookout"). I had a bunch of problems (pain in the chest, pain in the back, some problems with my knees not loaded symmetrically, my feet getting "extended" for quite a long time causing problems with Achilles). I also had a problem with restlessness -- these positions cannot be maintained for long without moving, I would be changing my position very frequently…
Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)
#144Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)
#145that really changed my life, it was like, how did I waste 28 years of my life without finding this trick :D
Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
Experiments are the part people fixate on. Science begins with observation.
Yes. But just publishing your observations is not enough. And this seems to be a published paper, which I find very weird.
Next, the acceptability of journal papers without conclusive experiments varies across fields. In some fields, such as observational sciences (e.g., astronomy, ecology, sociology), observational studies are common and valuable contributions to the literature. These studies often involve collecting and analyzing data from real-world observations, surveys, or existing datasets without the need for controlled experiments. In such cases, it is perfectly acceptable to publish papers based solely on observational data.
When you say, "is not enough," the question I respond with is "enough for what?" It's fully acceptable to publish a paper with observations in order to stimulate interest and encourage further research in the area. It's not necessary for a journal to require final results.
Finally, consider some of these famous and important papers which were published as observations without conclusive results. Should they have held back and waited until conclusive results were available?
1. Edwin Hubble's "A Relation between Distance and Radial Velocity among Extra-Galactic Nebulae"
2. Albert Einstein's "The Foundation of the General Theory of Relativity"
3. Charles Darwin's "On the Origin of Species"
Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)
#147I am very uncomfortable with this paper to be called scientific research. It certainly appears the author had extensive life experiences, but does not demonstrate any of the data he collected. > If you are a medical professional and have been trained in a “civilised” country you probably know next to nothing about the primate Homo sapiens and how they survive in the wild. Starting off by insulting an entire populatio…
Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)
#148Of the unfortunate side-effects of civilization, one is risk of injury. Of the several injuries subject has sustained in this pursuit (including to eyes, fingers, wrists, and elbows) is injury to subject's neck. In particular, a musculoskeletal injury of the muscles supporting the head on the spine, due to repeated stress from looking at a downard angle at glowing rectangle, as opposed to looking straight ahead.
This injury did result in up to 11 months of recuperation. During this time period, finding a way to rest the neck and head was extremely difficult and painful. After completing several weeks' worth of paper collection, some attempts were made at recuperation outside in nature. Upon attempting to sleep on the ground, rest was significantly painful and uncomfortable. Thus were attempted many months of trial and error at attempting to find positions with which to rest in a comfortable manner, while allowing the neck to heal.
At the end of recuperation, the result of attempts at finding resting positions was quite unexpected. Rest for this subject no longer requires (nor benefits from) pillows when side-sleeping, and back-sleeping is easier, though still not preferable. The explanation for this change appears to be an adaptation in musculoskeletal alignment when sleeping. This subject now acquires a particular alignment of head, neck, spine, shoulder, chest, back, and hips, that keeps any one body part from receiving undue strain. Sleep quality is consistent with sleep quality before injury, with the benefit of no longer needing props to assist in sleep quality.
The linked article's conclusion appears to be supported by subject's experience. Subject additionally notes that a single ear is enough to be alerted to most dangers. When sleeping outside, or in an enclosed cabin, such things as mice, deer, and the occasional canid, do tend to wake the subject, as well as odd sounds such as socks falling off the bed onto a plastic bag, or elastic bed sheet end-corners snapping upwards. Whether non-h.sapiens species are also alerted to the latter sounds with one ear open has not been formally evaluated.
Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)
#149I find this article quite insubstantial. He lists alternative sleeping positions, but no sources backing up the claim that "western sleeping positions" (whatever that is) are worse. Also only one citation, and that is to back up the claim that there are 200 primates. Nice pictures though - I feel happy that I can sit (relatively) comfortably in the squatting position (as an European).
The poor people in my country squat when they're resting. I was taught early on as a kid that I shouldn't sit like that because that's what "poor people do". I really regret listening to that piece of advice. As I observe my baby daughter, I realize how natural that squatting position is, and how much knee and hip mobility we really have.
It's why weightlifters have elevated heels, and why great squatters tend to have short femurs (and/or be short in general).
Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)
#150I slept (on my back) on the floor for a while. It was at times amazing—I would wake up and feel ready to go. Not like my muscles were weak or temporarily atrophied. Like, I didn’t know that was possible after a full nights sleep.
There seems to be so much potential in just reflecting on an considering what a “paleo” approach to something would be. And then you can just do that. You don’t even need to buy hundreds of dollars worth of supposedly ergonomic equipment. Just sleep in a funny-looking position. Just squat instead of sitting on a chair… if you can bare the social awkwardness or ridicule.
It’s so simple. Why do we make things complicated?
Well in part because “modern humans” cannot just do these things without becoming regarded as merely a modern human with eccentric hobbies. Because that’s what you get pegged as!—not as a modern human who rediscovered (through YouTube/the Web) some ancient wisdom but as a paleo-hipster, just another quirky modern human subculture.
And in part that is correct. You cannot be, say, a Western Buddhist who has all the know-how and experience of a born-in-the-culture (Asian) Buddhist. And in that same way you cannot become a non-modern… human.
But wait. Why would you want to? You are who you are. You may be a Buddhist from Scranton, PA who has no relation to Asian culture. Or an office worker who squats at the office. But why is that weird? Yeah you’re not a “real Buddhist” in that terribly essentialist sense, and you’re not a born-in-the-culture kind of human who has never used a chair. But why do you have to be that in order to make these (eccentric) choices for yourself? If it works for you, just go for it you paleo-hipster.