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Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests

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Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests

#141

Post by dasil003 »

marcamillion wrote: post #116
Karunamon wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't see how the head Linux kernel dev has been pushing the community foward? Okay then.

Heh.....you misunderstood me. I have never once bashed his contributions to the community and OSS. Just like I would never do the same for the creators of Java, C, PHP, all of which I don't use and have no interest in. But there is significant value in all of them and we are all better off for their existence. My point was, more often than not....you hear the creators of these 'foundational' contributions complaining…

Why do you conclude that Linus is shitting over Github's pull requests simply because they are different from what he would have done? What possible reason do you have for jumping to such a superficial conclusion?

I'm not going to speculate, but it's clear you are talking out your ass.

Linus has spend the last 20+ years building one of the most important pieces of software in existence. Not only that, but he created git, without which the Github guys, DHH, and everyone else would be using fucking Subversion. The process that he follows for kernel development does not exist out of vanity, it serves an actual proven purpose. Linus' care and attention to detail are a big part of why you can rely on the stability of Linux over time. For you to come in here spouting off some nonsense about why he does this or why he does that without clue #1 as to the real reasons, and then to pay homage to the guys who are "trying something new" all the time standing on the shoulders of said giants, well, it's a slap in the face. Respect is due my friend.

Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests

#142

Post by eugenejen »

marcamillion wrote: post #116
Karunamon wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't see how the head Linux kernel dev has been pushing the community foward? Okay then.

Heh.....you misunderstood me. I have never once bashed his contributions to the community and OSS. Just like I would never do the same for the creators of Java, C, PHP, all of which I don't use and have no interest in. But there is significant value in all of them and we are all better off for their existence. My point was, more often than not....you hear the creators of these 'foundational' contributions complaining…

I think you misunderstood that a lot of times so called "new things" are already thought about by those creators. But they may thought about cases that those new things are not a good solutions to problems and they decide to implement them in different way. In Crockford's case, it is the ';' at the end. And he wants to enforce it for clarity. And in Torvalds' case he wants accountability. I don't think they did not consider those new ideas when they start designing json/git, but they choose ways that facilitate programmers to create better/clearer/more accountable ways to solve problems.

I think for all software engineers who are old enough, we all know writing software is a social activity and sometime it is better to make projects manageable.

I think any one who creates technologies has to understand that design decision is an "Opinion".

Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests

#143

Post by primatology »

krschultz wrote: post #114
marcamillion wrote: post #68

I don't mean to be overly critical, but is it just me or are the 'godfathers' of computer science starting to sound like cranky old men? I mean....ok....this pull request being inferior to the way HE (the creator of Git) imagined it (or implemented it) is a bit petty imho. What's with the complaining? I am sure this is not the first time I have heard him complaining about something on Github or some other 'new techno…

I don't see where he is being unreasonable. He made git with his specific method of managing the Linux source repository in mind. Now someone wants him to ignore part of his tool for their connivence and he said no. He's not saying "we should all boycott GitHub because of it". He's not saying "they're idiots for doing this". He's saying 'The Linux project works one way, GitHub doesn't support that way, so we're not u…

> He's not saying "they're idiots for doing this".

Well...

"github is a total ghetto of crap"

"make a real pull request, not the braindamaged crap that github does"

Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests

#144

Post by cpeterso »

sage_joch wrote: post #137
why-el wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It always puzzled me why his commits (and in fact standard commits) ought to start with a verb that is not in its past form. When I started using git four months ago (such a newbie), I would write something like "Fixed this" instead of "Fix this". Anybody with more insights on this? I am just curious.

This is the first time I've seen his commits, but I do the same thing at work, deliberately. I don't pretend to know his reasons, but I've always had fun with the idea that if there were a super high-level language, it would look similar to a commit message and the corresponding changes would take place. And so I have changes that look like "Optimize the foo() function", etc.

I like the "super high-level language" perspective. I imagine commit history like a (journaling file system's) journal, whose commands can be undone and replayed.

Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests

#145

Post by buddycasino »

bithive123 wrote: post #128
marcamillion wrote: post #68

I don't mean to be overly critical, but is it just me or are the 'godfathers' of computer science starting to sound like cranky old men? I mean....ok....this pull request being inferior to the way HE (the creator of Git) imagined it (or implemented it) is a bit petty imho. What's with the complaining? I am sure this is not the first time I have heard him complaining about something on Github or some other 'new techno…

It's all about context. To someone who only knows PHP the opinions of most polyglot programmers seem cruel and elitist. Put me in a room full of Moodle developers and everyone will come away thinking of me as "that cynical guy who is always trashing everything we do". Are people so averse to acknowledging the bounds of their own experience that they discount other views over a hint of emotion? Does every cantankerous…

This. So very much this.

Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests

#146

Post by adestefan »

eridius wrote: post #12
happycube wrote: post #6

Considering Linus created git, if I were running github I'd tend to listen to whatever he had to say about it...

Devil's advocate: Considering GitHub popularized git, if I were in charge of git I'd listen to what the GitHub guys have to say about it.

Linus probably doesn't give a damn about how popular git is. He built it for the workflow that he wants to use. If github doesn't match that workflow, he's not going to use it.

Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests

#147

Post by drivebyacct2 »

dhconnelly wrote: post #98

antirez via twitter: "Linus, I'm with you. Preserve your bastion of code quality as it's something rare and rapidly fading away." https://twitter.com/#!/antirez/status/201065752395124737

Because being strong minded about git commit message styles is the same thing as "code quality"?

Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests

#148

Post by drivebyacct2 »

jarek wrote: post #62
alain94040 wrote: post #44

It's 2012 and we're still arguing about line breaks and 80-character lines?

It's 2012 and Gmail can't consistently reflow lines in emails between its flagship web client and its flagship Android client... so yes, it would appear so.

What?

Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests

#149

Post by jenius »

webcowboy wrote: post #96
marcamillion wrote: post #68

I don't mean to be overly critical, but is it just me or are the 'godfathers' of computer science starting to sound like cranky old men? I mean....ok....this pull request being inferior to the way HE (the creator of Git) imagined it (or implemented it) is a bit petty imho. What's with the complaining? I am sure this is not the first time I have heard him complaining about something on Github or some other 'new techno…

"The truth shouldn't be sugarcoated." Okay, fine. The way he handled this particular issue seems like a dick move. Being one of the godfathers of computer science isn't a license to act like a jerk. There's no question he's right, but there's nice-right and jerk-right. This sort of response seems like it only inhibits people's desire to get involved.

Yeah this is exactly what I thought when I read this. There's no excuse to act like a dick, and he totally is in this thread - name calling and being super angry when nobody else is. I'm a little disappointed.

Re: Linus Torvalds won't do github pull requests

#150

Post by trotsky »

marcamillion wrote: post #68

I don't mean to be overly critical, but is it just me or are the 'godfathers' of computer science starting to sound like cranky old men? I mean....ok....this pull request being inferior to the way HE (the creator of Git) imagined it (or implemented it) is a bit petty imho. What's with the complaining? I am sure this is not the first time I have heard him complaining about something on Github or some other 'new techno…

He's always been like that. Really that was the status quo in open source 10-15+ years ago. People were abrasive, efficiency oriented and most of the communities didn't have very many soft edges. Just off the top of my head I'm thinking of Theo de Raadt, Miguel de Icaza, Richard Stallman - hell if you were a nice guy you didn't make it on usenet back then.

In the last 5 or 10 years there has been a strong shift towards emphasizing civility and positivity even if it gets in the way of getting things right or expediency. I can certainly see the appeal in it, after all lots more people are drawn to programming now with a wider variety of personalities and motivations. I won't say it doesn't make sense to be more inclusive, but it certainly didn't used to be the norm.

Rails core homes on github right? What is it that they do when they don't like a pull request? Write a long blog post about how stupid people like you are a net drag on the open source world and keep awesome people like us from helping you even more and and rss it out to everyone.

Shrug.

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