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Signs that it's time to leave a company

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Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#141

Post by quickthrower2 »

scorpioxy wrote: post #44
quickthrower2 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two years for a company that isn't horrendous to work for. If it is clearly not working out - a no brainer - then just leave. Might be on day 1!

Funny you mention that. Looking back, there's at least one company that I should've left on day 1. The flags now look bright red. But my thinking back then was that I'm probably wrong with my understanding of the situation - maybe this, maybe that. There's an emotional undertaking when you leave your old role and show up at a new place and there's bound to be some struggle. That place was a disaster. I mean the half-…

I might have been over the top. Unless something illegal is going on, or you are getting harassed, you could say "hey it is day 1, I don't like this, I will set a calendar reminder for 2 weeks to check in again, and assess".

Plan continuation bias is hard to overcome though.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#142

Post by igor47 »

codegeek wrote: post #102
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Like, little software shops I tried those and TBH they never worked for me. Small shops in my experience have not very good processes, rush to gain new projects and customers at all cost by sales/management always overpromising and burning out engineers in the process who strugle with the unrealistic deadlines, promotions are gained trough favoritism since there's no fixed clear and well documented promotion/career…

That's ok. You are just built to work with more structure and processes. Some people like the small company vibe where things are a bit chaotic but also fun and creative. Nothing wrong with either.

Sadly, this is a false dichotomy. I've been involved with plenty of small companies where things are somehow both chaotic and also very structure/process-oriented, bureaucratic, and absolutely not fun or creative. My experience at Airbnb 2012 - 2016 is also that a company that's quite large can also be chaotic, fun, and creative.

Alas, to filter companies, size is not enough. If you want positive attributes, you have to explicitly look for them.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#143

Post by Salgat »

paulddraper wrote: post #54
lucidguppy wrote: post #34

I don't understand this fascination with central offices. We live in the year 2024. We should be able to look at our workforce, find small offices, and have hub and spoke networks of offices - and work from home as a fallback. Rent a condo, do a communal office, if you want more close collaboration - shuffle your teams to colocate them - not force them into 1hr commutes into a fucking empty office. Our infrastructure…

People collaborate easier in person. Travel is a downside.

Depends on the work being done. In my experience in-person collaboration just means the loudest most stubborn person gets their way and it's difficult to pause things to fact-check and research while decisions are being made. And honestly, fighting with this behavior is above my pay grade.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#145

Post by Aurornis »

erinaceousjones wrote: post #70

That so many people are so focused on things "having" to be in a constant state of exponential growth makes me feel uneasy. It's like so many people can't see the forest for the trees - we can't have infinite exponential growth forever. Like, little software shops which take on a stable number of projects / contracts / clients a year, focused on sustainability instead of pure profit, lose and gain people at a roughly…

> Like, little software shops which take on a stable number of projects / contracts / clients a year, focused on sustainability instead of pure profit, lose and gain people at a roughly 1:1 ratio, rarely downscale or upscale offices, have a relatively flat heierarchy, everyone is compensated realistically, reasonably and equitably, and the work is done at a rate that is a nice balance between interesting/challenging whilst relaxed enough to not cause burnout, with a sensible work/life balance. That's what I look for, and they're fucking havens.

Counterpoint: When I was hiring in another city, I routinely searched LinkedIn for candidates at the local "little software shops". Most of them went in expecting the unicorn situation you described and then realized it was actually kind of grueling, full of cliques, beholden to "customer is always right" thinking, and that they weren't really getting a chance to work on any long term projects done right.

I'm sure there are perfect unicorn little software shops like you describe, but they're not common and they're not easy to get into it. Also, being beholden to a small/stable number of clients isn't as great as it sounds once one of those key clients decides to end the contract or bring development in house. When a small software shop loses 1/4 or 1/2 of their annual billings all at once, things can get ugly.

Don't get me wrong: I, too, would love to work at the unicorn place you describe, but they're not really common or easy to get into.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#146

Post by davidw »

I'm thinking of the sea shanty "Leave her Johnny" as a power point:

* shipped it green

* rotten tub

* No grog allowed and rotten grub

* we're through

* going ashore

* voyage is long

* winds don't blow

* it's time for us to leave her

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#147

Post by [deleted] »

throwawaaarrgh wrote: post #71

"Try and get a job at somewhere growing rapidly" Personally I try and get a job at a company whose mission and ethics I believe in so I don't feel like a hapless techno-weenie cog in some generic startup wheel whose driving purpose is to give the founders a nice exit. Sadly for my skillset, the people hiring are generally evil or their net effect on the world is negative. Looking into goat farming.

[deleted]

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#148

Post by jorblumesea »

codegeek wrote: post #102
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Like, little software shops I tried those and TBH they never worked for me. Small shops in my experience have not very good processes, rush to gain new projects and customers at all cost by sales/management always overpromising and burning out engineers in the process who strugle with the unrealistic deadlines, promotions are gained trough favoritism since there's no fixed clear and well documented promotion/career…

That's ok. You are just built to work with more structure and processes. Some people like the small company vibe where things are a bit chaotic but also fun and creative. Nothing wrong with either.

That's not what that comment was saying. It was an idealistic take on a small shop, not a realistic take. eg: "work at a reasonable pace", "compensated fairly" often does not happen.

What it often means is stressful deadlines and low pay for hours work.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#149

Post by opportune »

auspiv wrote: post #30
opportune wrote: post #13

Definitely feeling this at another FAANG I think there’s something about post-pandemic work in software that just isn’t working. I don’t think it’s just interest rates or a hiring downturn, nor immediate causes like founders leaving (because I see this sickness at most big tech companies these days). Personally, I believe that hybrid work is not going well. Fully remote teams are good, fully onsite teams are good. Wi…

My company does week in-office, then week remote. Quite a bit of flexibility during the in-office weeks too if you have a doctor appt or whatever. I personally really like it. People get stuff done in-office, and then during the remote weeks we bust stuff out that doesn't need to be face-to-face. We are not at all a tech company.

That sounds great. I think I’d love something like that if, during in-office week, it was more than just half my immediate team that showed up.

I think one reason this isn’t more popular is that it’s harder for parents to plan around. Most of the parents I work with want the same in-office schedule every week - easier to plan around other weekly things like daycare and after school activities that way.

Re: Signs that it's time to leave a company

#150

Post by granshaw »

dilyevsky wrote: post #43
corytheboyd wrote: post #15

The big RSU grant is depleted and you don’t get a new one that is comparable in size. There is zero reason not to leave in this case, because you will absolutely make way more money by leaving. You can even leave and rejoin the same company to get another grant, as dumb as that is. Make sure you actually ask for a new grant before quitting, nobody is going to give you money for free. You also need to be good but that…

> because you will absolutely make way more money by leaving That is a pre-2023 advice my friend, unless you’ve been there like 10yrs or an ai researcher or something

Absolutely. Total comp, not to mention hiring in general at publicly traded tech firms has dropped significantly since the “software recession” and mass layoffs.

The current good times for employees are mainly in the economy outside of tech

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