280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars • Hacker News Board

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#141

Post by UI_at_80x24 » Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 5:02 PM UTC

nravic wrote: post #60

davidw wrote: post #21

I do almost all the grocery shopping for our family of 4 with a Rad Runner Plus with a large basket and bag. I love that bike. Even as someone pretty comfortable getting around on a 'regular' bike, having that extra power just makes it a really easy choice for more trips compared to the car. If it's hot out, it is so much nicer to hop on the bike and get an instant breeze compared to a hot stuffy car. If it's cold ou…

what kind of pannier bags do you use to haul groceries? All the ones I've used have been too small for my purposes.

Not OP, but I use Arkel RT-60. They are huge and strong. I've been able to haul two 24-cases of beer, plus half a dozen mixers.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#142

Post by uneekname » Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 5:02 PM UTC

willio58 wrote: post #117

camgunz wrote: post #83

I've said it before and I'll say it again: building the future around cars of any kind is completely unsustainable. We cannot reproduce the rates of rich world car ownership in the developing world without mass catastrophe (raw materials/labor needed for construction and maintenance, raw materials/labor/space needed for roads and parking lots, literal tons of waste--batteries, tires, steel, plastic, foam--, energy ne…

Fully agreed. And while everything you said is super important and true, one piece that really makes me pumped about this movement to ditch cars is more around quality of life. If you have to get in a car and drive to a parking lot somewhere to get groceries, commute to work, go out with friends, get healthcare, etc. You will obviously live a less healthy life both physically but also mentally because of it. Walking…

I totally agree about the noise and health benefits, but to me it's more a matter of respect and safety. In the U.S., we see too many pedestrians die each year. Our roads are built for cars only, with everything else as an afterthought. When I cross the street, drivers act like it's my responsibility to stay out of their way.

If some people need to use cars for mobility or business reasons, that is fine with me. But they need to have the utmost respect for me as a pedestrian/bicyclist. And the way to accomplish that is to make streets that force cars to slow down and watch out. If we make our cities safe for walking and biking, more people will do so!

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#143

Post by dublinben » Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 5:02 PM UTC

enqk wrote: post #97

camgunz wrote: post #83

I've said it before and I'll say it again: building the future around cars of any kind is completely unsustainable. We cannot reproduce the rates of rich world car ownership in the developing world without mass catastrophe (raw materials/labor needed for construction and maintenance, raw materials/labor/space needed for roads and parking lots, literal tons of waste--batteries, tires, steel, plastic, foam--, energy ne…

This has to include some thoughts on how to get vehicles to drastically lower their weights...

An e-bike weighs orders of magnitude less than an electric car.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#144

Post by camgunz » Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 5:02 PM UTC

enqk wrote: post #97

camgunz wrote: post #83

I've said it before and I'll say it again: building the future around cars of any kind is completely unsustainable. We cannot reproduce the rates of rich world car ownership in the developing world without mass catastrophe (raw materials/labor needed for construction and maintenance, raw materials/labor/space needed for roads and parking lots, literal tons of waste--batteries, tires, steel, plastic, foam--, energy ne…

This has to include some thoughts on how to get vehicles to drastically lower their weights...

I really just don't think there's any benefit to trying to fix cars (I keep thinking "stop trying to make fetch/cars happen" from Mean Girls haha). My strong opinion is the way you fix the weight problem in EVs isn't to hope for better battery efficiency or w/e, it's to replace it w/ an ebike and a raincoat.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#145

Post by p_j_w » Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 5:04 PM UTC

vikramkr wrote: post #87

k_dumez wrote: post #17

"In the United States, a staggering 60% of all car trips cover less than 10km." Being lucky enough to live in a walkable city (NYC) this is insane to me. The world is so car-brained.

Uhh, 10 kilometers is a LOT. I would not walk 6.2 miles for groceries. Or to work. Or to most things frankly

The suggestion here is not that you walk these distances, it’s that you bike or scoot them.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#146

Post by camgunz » Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 5:04 PM UTC

ben0x539 wrote: post #113

camgunz wrote: post #83

I've said it before and I'll say it again: building the future around cars of any kind is completely unsustainable. We cannot reproduce the rates of rich world car ownership in the developing world without mass catastrophe (raw materials/labor needed for construction and maintenance, raw materials/labor/space needed for roads and parking lots, literal tons of waste--batteries, tires, steel, plastic, foam--, energy ne…

> probably honestly just providing free swaps There has to be a way to do the subsidizing thing that doesn't pay people who have a car to continue having a car, over people who haven't had a car and/or will stop having one...

I like this point, my mind immediately goes to "swap your ICE for an EV or an e-bike and $20k". I honestly think that deal is so good you'd see car theft spike. Maybe that's fine? We're in wild times haha.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#147

Post by Glide » Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 5:04 PM UTC

kibwen wrote: post #19

Would anyone here like to recommend (or disrecommend) any e-bike models?

I would honestly look for Belt Drive versions of most of these recommendations as there is one less maintenance thing to worry about.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#148

Post by thegrim22 » Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 5:04 PM UTC

camgunz wrote: post #83

I've said it before and I'll say it again: building the future around cars of any kind is completely unsustainable. We cannot reproduce the rates of rich world car ownership in the developing world without mass catastrophe (raw materials/labor needed for construction and maintenance, raw materials/labor/space needed for roads and parking lots, literal tons of waste--batteries, tires, steel, plastic, foam--, energy ne…

Remember when 20 years ago if anybody had doubts with the way things were heading we were told "there's no war on cars you conspiracy theorist, nobody's going to come for your cars you conspiracy theorist"? After 20 years they've made enough progress shaping the narrative that they no longer need to lie and hide their agenda they can just put it in the open.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#149

Post by superkuh » Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 5:04 PM UTC

camgunz wrote: post #83

I've said it before and I'll say it again: building the future around cars of any kind is completely unsustainable. We cannot reproduce the rates of rich world car ownership in the developing world without mass catastrophe (raw materials/labor needed for construction and maintenance, raw materials/labor/space needed for roads and parking lots, literal tons of waste--batteries, tires, steel, plastic, foam--, energy ne…

Not everyone lives in a perfect temperate coastal environment that doesn't get winter. And no, European winters are not really that cold and their use of bikes is not a good comparison. Especially since the distances involved are far smaller for them. Cars are vital in many regions.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#150

Post by cedws » Fri, Nov 17, 2023, 5:05 PM UTC

camgunz wrote: post #83

I've said it before and I'll say it again: building the future around cars of any kind is completely unsustainable. We cannot reproduce the rates of rich world car ownership in the developing world without mass catastrophe (raw materials/labor needed for construction and maintenance, raw materials/labor/space needed for roads and parking lots, literal tons of waste--batteries, tires, steel, plastic, foam--, energy ne…

People are selfish and DGAF. They will continue to buy the latest and biggest Range Rovers and Ford trucks (pedestrian death machines) to take their kids to school because they desperately need to signal how well off they are. Cars are a disgustingly polluting outlet for people to show off. IMO we should be banning big cars, possibly even legislating new cars are no bigger than a Japanese "Kei" car. Speed restrictions to go with it of course.

We should also be putting effort into reducing traffic to reduce emissions. If a road needs to come to a halt every 2 minutes for pedestrians, that adds up on a busy road. Building overpasses/underpasses in urban areas could improve traffic flow significantly.