Propelling 1500kg around at speed just to get a 80kg human somewhere, doesn't seem super efficient, (apparently electric bikes are around 30 kg).
280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars
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Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars
#112We don't need a 4000 lb vehicle to move a ~200 lb person. In order of efficiency: (1) Walk (2) Unicycle, roller skate, scooter (no battery, very little material) (2) Bike (3) Electric bike (and all forms of newfangled electric: escooters, segways) (4) Electric motorbike or scooter (5) Mass transit (can be public/private) transportation: Electric trains (6) Mass transit (can be public/private) transportation: Electric…
Energy efficiency is not the only variable that matters. Walking to my grocery store would take almost two hours each way. Biking would take 30 minutes each direction. Driving is 14 minutes each way, and is the only feasible way I can get groceries when I have my kids in tow (which sometimes is a necessity).
Of course, many people forget that there are folks living in villages / remote areas like you.
Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars
#113I've said it before and I'll say it again: building the future around cars of any kind is completely unsustainable. We cannot reproduce the rates of rich world car ownership in the developing world without mass catastrophe (raw materials/labor needed for construction and maintenance, raw materials/labor/space needed for roads and parking lots, literal tons of waste--batteries, tires, steel, plastic, foam--, energy ne…
> probably honestly just providing free swaps
There has to be a way to do the subsidizing thing that doesn't pay people who have a car to continue having a car, over people who haven't had a car and/or will stop having one...
Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars
#114We don't need a 4000 lb vehicle to move a ~200 lb person. In order of efficiency: (1) Walk (2) Unicycle, roller skate, scooter (no battery, very little material) (2) Bike (3) Electric bike (and all forms of newfangled electric: escooters, segways) (4) Electric motorbike or scooter (5) Mass transit (can be public/private) transportation: Electric trains (6) Mass transit (can be public/private) transportation: Electric…
not to get us too far off track, but unicycling is WAY less efficient than walking.
For those that have never tried it: it's like trying to go for a jog while maintaining a three-quarters-squat posture.
Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars
#115It's good that the batteries are many times smaller than electric cars and trucks. I still have a problem with the accounting being focused on what the consumer directly experiences rather than the full lifecycle of the vehicle (manufacturing, logistics of vehicle and spare parts, and disposal) but I don't think it changes the conclusions much except maybe a minor edit to the ranking by kilometer-people per ton of CO…
20k miles in 5 years of ownership? That's well below average mileage (13k miles for 1 year is average).
But further, if you want to talk about lifecycle, then why not consider a used Model S (or other ev) with 20k miles? It's not like EVs suddenly explode and need to be junked after 20k miles. The CO2 payoff period for an EV is around 25k miles, after that every mile driven on an EV ends up being less emissions wise than a regular ICE. Add to this the fact that EVs have extended lifetimes compared to ICE. 300 or 500k miles is more than possible with today's EVs.
Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars
#116I've said it before and I'll say it again: building the future around cars of any kind is completely unsustainable. We cannot reproduce the rates of rich world car ownership in the developing world without mass catastrophe (raw materials/labor needed for construction and maintenance, raw materials/labor/space needed for roads and parking lots, literal tons of waste--batteries, tires, steel, plastic, foam--, energy ne…
I don’t think, that we’re getting back to the tech level of 1960s in Soviet Union. There were cars for important people and government. The rest lived in the big buildings around factories.
Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars
#117I've said it before and I'll say it again: building the future around cars of any kind is completely unsustainable. We cannot reproduce the rates of rich world car ownership in the developing world without mass catastrophe (raw materials/labor needed for construction and maintenance, raw materials/labor/space needed for roads and parking lots, literal tons of waste--batteries, tires, steel, plastic, foam--, energy ne…
Fully agreed. And while everything you said is super important and true, one piece that really makes me pumped about this movement to ditch cars is more around quality of life.
If you have to get in a car and drive to a parking lot somewhere to get groceries, commute to work, go out with friends, get healthcare, etc. You will obviously live a less healthy life both physically but also mentally because of it. Walking is exercise, it's something we were all evolved to do and it keeps us healthy physically and mentally. It also encourages community when everyone isn't surrounded by a metal and plastic multi-ton machine. I recently moved to a walkable part of my city and it's actually amazing how much it's benefited my life. I say hi to neighbors and people who walk routes like I do, I get fresh air since not every street is filled to the brim with cars, but honestly one of the best effects is silence. Cars our LOUD. Even electric cars unfortunately, it really has little to do with the sound of the engine at speeds like 30mph, it's more about wind and tire noise. Meanwhile, people walking, biking, or on scooters are silent and it's brought me a lot of peace.
Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars
#118We don't need a 4000 lb vehicle to move a ~200 lb person. In order of efficiency: (1) Walk (2) Unicycle, roller skate, scooter (no battery, very little material) (2) Bike (3) Electric bike (and all forms of newfangled electric: escooters, segways) (4) Electric motorbike or scooter (5) Mass transit (can be public/private) transportation: Electric trains (6) Mass transit (can be public/private) transportation: Electric…
At least part of what keeps people from switching to more eco-friendly transportation is the protection arms race: people buy bigger cars because they are safer for their occupants. This leads to more injuries because bigger cars do more damage. Which means people are more concerned about injuries and buy bigger cars. This is one area where I am concerned about the impacts of electric vehicles. They weigh a lot more…
IANA automotive engineer, but I would assume that injuries from car-vs-pedestrian collisions are mostly due to impact velocity, and not due to momentum.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the higher-mass electric vehicles are more dangerous to other cars when involved in car-vs-car collisions, though.
Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars
#119Something I’ve thought a lot about is why don’t we have more support around golf cart and golf cart adjacent vehicles? They are fairly cheap compared to a car, can be BEV, drive around on most city streets, fractions of the weight and danger to pedestrians etc.
I know it doesn’t work in a lot of areas due to weather etc, but it seems like an obvious stop-gap solution.
It is also kind of “cool” to drive around in a golf cart
Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars
#120I do almost all the grocery shopping for our family of 4 with a Rad Runner Plus with a large basket and bag. I love that bike. Even as someone pretty comfortable getting around on a 'regular' bike, having that extra power just makes it a really easy choice for more trips compared to the car. If it's hot out, it is so much nicer to hop on the bike and get an instant breeze compared to a hot stuffy car. If it's cold ou…
what kind of pannier bags do you use to haul groceries? All the ones I've used have been too small for my purposes.
Not OP but I have essentially the same bike (Packa) with kid bars on the back. I throw a big Home Depot plastic storage crate into the bars, then 4 bags of groceries go into the crate. 6+ if you stack and bungee them. Plus another bag in the front basket.
If the kids want to go to the store then the crate goes on the bike trailer.