Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site • Hacker News Board

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#141

Post by asdff » Thu, May 25, 2023, 10:11 PM UTC

metalliqaz wrote: post #102

jyscao wrote: post #55

IMO Tesla would be better if they focused solely on making good EVs, rather than also trying to become the leader in self-driving. I get that they're trying to create a wider moat against their competitors, but if their self-driving software are found to have systematic failure modes in them as these internal docs seem to suggest, then that could very well do more harm to their reputation in the long run.

It's not just the software. They are trying to make due without the kind of sensors that are required to properly sense the immediate environment (LIDAR)

How expensive is LIDAR even? My xiaomi vacuum has LIDAR.

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#142

Post by dmbche » Thu, May 25, 2023, 10:11 PM UTC

withinboredom wrote: post #101

jacquesm wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the same everywhere in the world though, and even in places where it is strictly passing on the left (or on the right in the UK, Japan and a few other places) 'keep your lane' tends to be the rule if the right hand lane is also moving at the speed limit (so you can't legally pass). That way the carrying capacity of the road is higher. But when traffic is less dense 'station keeping' should be avoided at al…

> 'keep your lane' tends to be the rule if the right hand lane is also moving at the speed limit (so you can't legally pass). Why are you in the lefter lane if you can't pass? I've been in rush hour (where keep-to-the-right-unless-passing is very strictly enforced) in bumper-to-bumper traffic and the left two (out of 6) are completely empty and everyone is doing 'around' the speed limit. Some are in the right lane do…

Where is this? In eastern canada that's impossible to imagine - although most highways are 2-3 lanes, not 6, I couldn't imagine having a free lane on the side while having bumper to bumper everywhere else.

Or are these protected lanes for carpooling?

I find this very impressive!

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#143

Post by sushid » Thu, May 25, 2023, 10:11 PM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #125

metalliqaz wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just the software. They are trying to make due without the kind of sensors that are required to properly sense the immediate environment (LIDAR)

This may surprise, but LIDAR is a very recent innovation and virtually zero percent of cars (particularly historically) are LIDAR equipped. Binocular vision has a pretty impressive track record.

Binocular vision as in human vision? Powered by the human brain? That's vastly different than binocular vision powered by Tesla's rudimentary "AI"

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#144

Post by pseg134 » Thu, May 25, 2023, 10:11 PM UTC

rcxdude wrote: post #92

belltaco wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it sells the world's best selling car at a high margin? And is double the price of the Toyota Corolla it dethroned. https://electrek.co/2023/05/25/tesla-model-y-is-now-the-worl... If one gets news about Tesla only from HN then it does seem Tesla is ridiculous, because only negative stories tend to get upvoted and positive ones buried.

Still doesn't justify its valuation. Tesla is very far from worthless but nowhere near worth its stock price.

Do you know there is a much better place to express this opinion than a message board?

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#145

Post by zizee » Thu, May 25, 2023, 10:12 PM UTC

dmbche wrote: post #71

zizee wrote: post #44

How different is this from any other similar sized companies behaviour? This site doesn't seem that impartial/unbiased. From a linked article on Tesla: > It’s also worth noting that the above email was sent after 2 a.m. Pacific, which isn’t specifically relevant to the faked video. But it does make it look like Musk is a loser with no friends or anything else to do other than work. Loser.

Is what you raise relevant? Is it fine if everybody does it? Is the leak not real because you found a link to it on an unimpartial site? Edit:spelling

The report being on a site with a bias does make me want to read with a more critical eye, as everything is being spun to look as bad as possible.

The behaviour described (not wanting anything written) might very well be standard operating procedure with any company with decent legal counsel. If it is common behaviour, it is not some sort of Muskism, part of his evil scheming as is implied in the article, instead it is a reflection of the world we live in.

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#146

Post by asdff » Thu, May 25, 2023, 10:12 PM UTC

buildbot wrote: post #2

I avoid driving anywhere near Tesla’s, especially tailing them. Phantom braking is not okay.

I avoid them too. Erratic drivers too. I'm not sure if its them coming out of autopilot back into control or just that's what happens when you have a lead foot and a car that goes to 60mph in 3 seconds entirely silently.

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#147

Post by sushid » Thu, May 25, 2023, 10:13 PM UTC

iknowstuff wrote: post #97

sandofsky wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a Toyota hid an “unintended acceleration” bug, it was a scandal that resulted in a $1.2B fine. https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota-pay-12b-hiding-deadly-...

Every customer complaint about unintended acceleration of Teslas was proven in court to be the fault of the customer confusing the pedals. The accelerator pedal has two independent sensors measuring input - they both have to agree, and no input on the brake pedal must be detected for the vehicle to accelerate. They go a step further. They use their cameras to detect the environment and significantly slow down acceler…

Teslas have a problem with phantom braking (e.g. when there's a dark shadow it fails to detect that it's a shadow before going from ~70mph to ~55mph). Myself and countless friends I know have experienced it but that problem has yet to be solved.

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#148

Post by ak217 » Thu, May 25, 2023, 10:13 PM UTC

iknowstuff wrote: post #97

sandofsky wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a Toyota hid an “unintended acceleration” bug, it was a scandal that resulted in a $1.2B fine. https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/toyota-pay-12b-hiding-deadly-...

Every customer complaint about unintended acceleration of Teslas was proven in court to be the fault of the customer confusing the pedals. The accelerator pedal has two independent sensors measuring input - they both have to agree, and no input on the brake pedal must be detected for the vehicle to accelerate. They go a step further. They use their cameras to detect the environment and significantly slow down acceler…

No such thing was proven in court.

Instead, what was shown in court was that Toyota had a culture of firmware engineering that produced code impossible to consistently QC, debug, test or verify. And as a result, they quietly fired the directors of that department, rebuilt it from scratch, and replaced every TCU from that era with a re-engineered unit in a series of about a dozen recalls spanning a decade and millions of vehicles.

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#149

Post by sushid » Thu, May 25, 2023, 10:13 PM UTC

pacetherace wrote: post #121

bottlepalm wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn't tail any car in general. There's a lot more 'real' braking out there than 'phantom' braking.

in most commutes, if your tailing distance is too much, someone will else will come in front of you.

That's fine. You lose like .5 seconds of your life when another car comes in front of you.

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#150

Post by olyjohn » Thu, May 25, 2023, 10:14 PM UTC

dmbche wrote: post #123

iknowstuff wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every customer complaint about unintended acceleration of Teslas was proven in court to be the fault of the customer confusing the pedals. The accelerator pedal has two independent sensors measuring input - they both have to agree, and no input on the brake pedal must be detected for the vehicle to accelerate. They go a step further. They use their cameras to detect the environment and significantly slow down acceler…

Would you have a link to that? I'd be interested to look. As a side note, I've never heard of confusing the pedals as an issue for ANY car, so if Telsa's get people to confuse them enough to bring them to court, it's probably bad design. Edit: The US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates 16,000 accidents per year in the United States occur when drivers intend to apply the brake but mistakenly apply…

It happens all the time. People panic and mash their foot to the floor. Some old guy crashed into 6 cars down the street from my work through a parking lot, and jumped his car across the alley and though the wall of my office into our break room. He just panicked and thought he was mashing the brakes. Luckily nobody was in the break room.