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Sam Altman Says OpenAI Will Leave the EU If There's Any Real AI Regulation

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Re: Sam Altman Says OpenAI Will Leave the EU If There's Any Real AI Regulation

#141

Post by Tangurena2 »

robertlagrant wrote: post #100
avidphantasm wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a nonsensical statement. All markets, and thus all goods sold on a market are regulated. You can’t have markets without regulations.

This is just thinking about the wrong level of regulation. Not all goods need to have CE marking, or get audited regularly, or anything like that. I can go to someone who makes furniture in their shop and buy that furniture without them ever contacting the British Standards Institute.

You can't buy it if you can't agree about what money is. That's one of those pesky regulations.

Re: Sam Altman Says OpenAI Will Leave the EU If There's Any Real AI Regulation

#142

Post by mschuster91 »

scarface74 wrote: post #119
ilyt wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every thread about GDPR have people (I assume from US, especially given it being HN) whining how "hard" it is to implement (just don't store user data by default, how hard is that?) and how "overbearing" it is. Then big surprise when another news about US spying on its citizens harder than people thought drops...

If the law is that simple, then why did it take 11 chapters and 99 sections to say that?

Because European laws tend to be very precise and detailed, so that people can rely on them instead of a situation in the US where the effective boundaries of the law are only created in the subsequent years by the courts.

It is easier to read the law and the cover text explaining the reasoning behind the regulations than to read a vague US/UK style law and then having to research court rulings, looking which of these conflict with each other or if they're even applicable (as I recently learned here, y'all's federal courts are organized in circuits and a ruling of a federal court is only binding for that circuit).

Re: Sam Altman Says OpenAI Will Leave the EU If There's Any Real AI Regulation

#143

Post by Tangurena2 »

dijit wrote: post #37

I've spoken to many people in the USA that are anti-union and anti-regulation. The impression they have is that regulation is used to stomp out small businesses (and unions have some propensity for corruption). The EU regulation does not come with the same feelings, aside from the very aggressive FUD around GDPR. EU regulation is typically seen as something for the consumer/public good and not intended to stifle comp…

The difference in philosophy is part of the issue. The EU leans towards the precautionary principle (first, show us that it is safe). The US leans towards reactionary regulation (something terrible happened, let's make sure it doesn't happen again).

There is also a large difference in practice. In the US, it is possible to get rid of regulations via lawsuits or "lobbying". It is also possible to corrupt public discourse with large amounts of advertising (see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36067401). It is much harder to apply US-style lobbying to EU regulators (one of the motivations for Brexit was to get away from EU regulators), so American companies will try very hard to get out from the regulations while making money from EU customers.

What he wants is toothless & after-the-fact regulation that will not reduce his income.

Re: Sam Altman Says OpenAI Will Leave the EU If There's Any Real AI Regulation

#144

Post by nemo44x »

nickpp wrote: post #129
jevgeni wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody outlawed cars.

There were preciously little regulations in the 1900s though. Don't you think if cars were invented today they would face a whole lot of regulations?

Cars do face a ton of regulations today. You can’t sell a car if it doesn’t meet or exceed hundreds of regulations.

Re: Sam Altman Says OpenAI Will Leave the EU If There's Any Real AI Regulation

#145

Post by Tangurena2 »

surgical_fire wrote: post #123
spacebanana7 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google search and many other big tech divisions already did that with China. When a country/region deviates from the rest of the world in a big way there comes a point at which you can't offer the same products and services as other markets.

I'm still waiting for Google/Facebook to leave Europe. Never seems to happen, despite the incessant whining. Maybe the fines were not heavy enough.

Paying a billion dollars per year in fines is still cheaper for Facebook than leaving the EU.

Re: Sam Altman Says OpenAI Will Leave the EU If There's Any Real AI Regulation

#146

Post by epolanski »

cm2012 wrote: post #128
epolanski wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

User privacy, cambridge analytica, facebook, and the impact those together had in several elections, most especially Trump 2016 and Brexit.

Cambridge Analytica had basically no effect on any election. People who actually understand online advertising consider it a joke. The "organic" social stuff that helped Trump 2016 (leaked Democrat emails, etc) had nothing to do with privacy or ads.

Cambridge Analytica's sold their services literally as "election management agency" and promised to be able to influence a large number of undecided voters.

More than 87M people were profiled, and more than 3M people were targeted by Cambridge Analytica in 11 key states during the election to feed them the content that would swing their indecision towards Trump based on their psychological profile and preferences.

Trump paid for that, and Michigan and Pennsylvania and New Hampshire were all very close.

To boldly state that CA had no impact on US elections, Brexit and I don't remember which South American election when the people involved in it literally sold it and used previous results as evidence seems a bit of a stretch.

I might be wrong, but there's no clear way of knowing unless votes were not anonymous.

Re: Sam Altman Says OpenAI Will Leave the EU If There's Any Real AI Regulation

#147

Post by scarface74 »

mschuster91 wrote: post #142
scarface74 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the law is that simple, then why did it take 11 chapters and 99 sections to say that?

Because European laws tend to be very precise and detailed, so that people can rely on them instead of a situation in the US where the effective boundaries of the law are only created in the subsequent years by the courts. It is easier to read the law and the cover text explaining the reasoning behind the regulations than to read a vague US/UK style law and then having to research court rulings, looking which of thes…

And yet small businesses in the EU are still getting caught up in it.

Re: Sam Altman Says OpenAI Will Leave the EU If There's Any Real AI Regulation

#148

Post by orwin »

chii wrote: post #87
orwin wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber and Airbnb?

Uber brought ride sharing and cracked the taxi market wide open - perhaps to the benefit of riders. Airbnb is also a boon for travellers looking to stay cheap, and a boon for property owners to cash in on underutilized real estate. The "harm" that has been cited to have been caused by them are only the incumbents that do not move with the market or times.

You don't live in a European city near the sea. Airbnb is a plague. We used to use a house sharing in summer, we did it for years, until Airbnb killed it. It was an exchange 1 to 1 in term of population, we now do x5 to x10 in summer.

Now that the harm is done (speculation on housing priced out teachers and low income workers, old, niche stores turned into tourist traps), we finally have regulation. A bit too late. But at least the mayor is adding 20k housing units (+20%), driving the price down and making speculators eat a fat loss.

Uber was regulated much faster so it's impact have mostly been positive, unless you've been raped by a predator as they used to not check their drivers.

You have to regulate ahead of time, even if it's soft and toothless in the beginning. Check the EU proposal to regulate AI, it seems really, really soft.

Re: Sam Altman Says OpenAI Will Leave the EU If There's Any Real AI Regulation

#150

Post by Fnoord »

spacebanana7 wrote: post #116
Fnoord wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given how many companies were saying they would leave Russia versus those who actually left Russia there's a gap between what companies say and what they do. > but that's subject to disproportionality high taxes and compliance costs. Well, disproportionality [sic] is subjective at best, and those high taxes get evaded within EU. All big corporations do that, btw.

VAT, employment taxes and regulatory fines are hard to avoid paying in the EU, even if corporate profit taxes get moved around a bit.

"moved around a bit" well, the amount which gets moved around is enormous. I don't know how its done now (I do know its still being done), but the way it was done was it was getting moved to The Netherlands to Ireland to The Netherlands. There's even a Dutch term for such a company: brievenbusfirma, and the location knows for them residing: Amsterdam Zuidas. So we get the curious situation where Ikea is a Dutch company.

You're crying wolf about "disproportionality high taxes and compliance costs" but these examples of yours are drops in a bucket compared to the tax evasion severity.

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