Vacations in the Soviet Union • Hacker News Board

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#141

Post by Arrath » Mon, May 01, 2023, 5:40 PM UTC

ActorNightly wrote: post #111

boveus wrote: post #79

>It encouraged workers to vacation with groups of relative strangers as opposed to their friends and families. This can actually work out well. I experienced something similar in the US while on vacation. I was traveling with someone from Glenwood Springs, CO to Denver, CO via Amtrak. We went to the dining car for lunch an since there were two of us and space is at a premium, the Amtrak policy was to seat us with one…

This is a very good idea for teenagers and younger adults to break them out of the online world. For working class though, its probably best not to force people to socialize. The thing that doesn't get talked enough about in socialization is that its not all positive, and people have different tolerance to each others bullshit.

My dad had a, to teenage me, embarrassing habit of asking less-than-full tables at busy restaurants (mostly tables that looked like they'd just been seated, only drinks or maybe appetizers) if they would like some company and conversation.

It got us an invitation surprisingly often, skipping a long wait or a walk to another restaurant, and made for some interesting table talk at the same time.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#142

Post by dubcanada » Mon, May 01, 2023, 5:40 PM UTC

Dma54rhs wrote: post #93

beepbooptheory wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. So many articles and discussions these days about how everyone is so lonely and isolated. The article seems to want to imply this system is kind of a bad thing, or at least weird, but I have trouble seeing anything but good things in it.

There are so many possibilities to go on vacations like that where everything is pre-arranged and with strangers. From fancy cruise ships to regular travel company arranged stuff.

I think the difference is the forced separation. Most people go with friends, family, groups, what not. If you go alone you are the outsider. Forcing everyone to go by themselves opens up true "stranger" vacations.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#143

Post by Haga » Mon, May 01, 2023, 5:41 PM UTC

boveus wrote: post #79

>It encouraged workers to vacation with groups of relative strangers as opposed to their friends and families. This can actually work out well. I experienced something similar in the US while on vacation. I was traveling with someone from Glenwood Springs, CO to Denver, CO via Amtrak. We went to the dining car for lunch an since there were two of us and space is at a premium, the Amtrak policy was to seat us with one…

It was mostly to destroy the family as counter revolutionary unit.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#144

Post by jedberg » Mon, May 01, 2023, 5:41 PM UTC

ActorNightly wrote: post #111

boveus wrote: post #79

>It encouraged workers to vacation with groups of relative strangers as opposed to their friends and families. This can actually work out well. I experienced something similar in the US while on vacation. I was traveling with someone from Glenwood Springs, CO to Denver, CO via Amtrak. We went to the dining car for lunch an since there were two of us and space is at a premium, the Amtrak policy was to seat us with one…

This is a very good idea for teenagers and younger adults to break them out of the online world. For working class though, its probably best not to force people to socialize. The thing that doesn't get talked enough about in socialization is that its not all positive, and people have different tolerance to each others bullshit.

As long as it's a situation where you can opt out of further interactions, it's no so bad. You meet, you decide if you want to keep talking, and then move on.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#145

Post by chucksmash » Mon, May 01, 2023, 5:41 PM UTC

kfrzcode wrote: post #68

pierat wrote: post #49

Sigh, that's not always easy with many of the people here with "unlimited PTO" without guaranteed minimums. Most of the unlimited clauses are based on manager approval. The base HR justification for unlimited PTO is to not have to pay out unused PTO when they leave. Naturally, it sounds good on face, but leads to less PTO taken due to inherent worries of "how much is too much", lack of manager approval, and the like.…

20 + 10 = one full calendar month (that's 6 business weeks) of work. You're asking for more than six weeks per year where you can just get paid for not working. Sure, there's plenty of holistic value-add to being a well rested, happy employee, but if the difference for your happiness and well-being is somewhere above having six weeks of paid vacation (plus assumed sick days as needed for actual sicknesses) and gettin…

Your conclusions are nonsequitors.

GP doesn't say they need more time to recuperate, they just said they'd prefer more time off.

Desiring more leisure time doesn't mean your work is stressful, you are underpaid, in the wrong field, or discontent.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#146

Post by gumballindie » Mon, May 01, 2023, 5:41 PM UTC

RajT88 wrote: post #71

gumballindie wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two sides of the same coin. I know it’s difficult to see it while stuck inside the loop but corporate work is like soviet work with fancy iphones and the illusion of free choice (you can chose as long as the choice is right). The politburo is replaced by the board while the apparatus by management. Conformity and obedience are not just desired are actively encouraged. Spreading corporate propaganda and preventing wor…

And a good manager, which supports your out-of-box thinking to work around bureaucratic limits, functions as a leader of the resistance.

There you go. I cant help but wonder what would such people have achieved hadn't they been “freed” of their “burdens” by the “democratisation” of every aspect of free enterprise (coincidentally, communism also saw itself as a democratising force). I have a feeling those people would have lived a free and independent life as a small business owner with employees that looked forward to working with them.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#147

Post by yamtaddle » Mon, May 01, 2023, 5:42 PM UTC

ahelwer wrote: post #108

maerF0x0 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People shouldn't have to wait until retirement to enjoy it. Also people should not pursue a strategy that concentrates ALL their enjoyment until retirement. It's a high variance strategy with IMO low EROI . My bias is because my father died in his 40s and my step father in his late 50s.. Both never saw a day of retirement despite saving for it. I highly recommend a patterned approach to life enjoyment, yes this is…

I'm happy you've boiled your recharging needs down to a science but none of this compares with long contiguous periods of unstructured time you can choose to use as you wish. Three months off every decade? Really?

Nb the described plan is luxurious by US standards.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#148

Post by waboremo » Mon, May 01, 2023, 5:42 PM UTC

ActorNightly wrote: post #111

boveus wrote: post #79

>It encouraged workers to vacation with groups of relative strangers as opposed to their friends and families. This can actually work out well. I experienced something similar in the US while on vacation. I was traveling with someone from Glenwood Springs, CO to Denver, CO via Amtrak. We went to the dining car for lunch an since there were two of us and space is at a premium, the Amtrak policy was to seat us with one…

This is a very good idea for teenagers and younger adults to break them out of the online world. For working class though, its probably best not to force people to socialize. The thing that doesn't get talked enough about in socialization is that its not all positive, and people have different tolerance to each others bullshit.

On the contrary, it might be crucial for the working class that is growing more isolated by the day and prevent a lot of the negative socialization you're referencing. Which imo stems from a lack of experience of handling conversations (we really do not get enough practice outside of people we already have lots of common ground with, ie our friends), and also an increased sensitivity from this isolation "choice".

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#149

Post by dubcanada » Mon, May 01, 2023, 5:42 PM UTC

atemerev wrote: post #3

The Soviet economy was somewhat surreal and it is difficult to explain it well to the Western audience. Including vacations, vacation tickets («путёвки»), summer camps, sanatoriums and the like. I still remember some parts though, so if you are interested in how it worked, I can answer your questions. Most definitely it wasn't all that rosy.

What are "vacation tickets"?

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#150

Post by r00fus » Mon, May 01, 2023, 5:42 PM UTC

californical wrote: post #37

ahelwer wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prolonged periods of time spent without obligation to work for pay is one of the greatest luxuries you can have in this life. People shouldn't have to wait until retirement to enjoy it. Sabbatical, basically, although even sabbatical often comes with obligations for self-improvement serving the company offering it. A lot of discourse on working hours revolves around decreasing the hours worked per week. I would also…

This is an interesting idea — there could be a sabbatical accrual of sorts. One way this could realistically work today (with a lot of kicking and screaming about how it’ll ruin the economy) is each year of work earns a month of sabbatical, and once you’ve earned at least 2 months you can exercise your sabbatical rights, given some notice. Companies could cap it at 6 months at a time so you don’t completely lose trac…

I mean, lots of things we could do but don't because of who actually runs this country. The US is an oligarchy by most definitions.