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Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

viemu.com

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Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#141

Post by anthonyb »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #124
andrewvc wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just switched from ViM to emacs (mostly for SLIME) after about 6 years of ViM usage, it wasn't a big deal at all, both are great.

Maybe you didn't use Vim with much depth? I know plenty of people who claim to use it but just stay in insert-mode all the time, don't use text-objects, etc. It doesn't really count if you actively avoid most things that make vim unique.

Maybe you shouldn't assume that people are morons?

---

Clarification, since I'm getting downvoted for that: Go look at the guy's profile, and his blog. He's an experienced dev, using vim for "6 years", and he's been on HN for three, has racked up a bunch of karma, blah, blah, blah. I'm pretty sure he got past the "use vim as notepad" stage. Assuming that he hasn't is assuming that he's a moron, and contributes nothing to the discussion.

How about you deal with the meat of what he's said? Something like "vim can do this thing which emacs can't" (unlikely) or "emacs does this annoying thing which vim doesn't" would be more productive than "Hey, I'm going to assume that you know nothing about vim, despite you using it for six years"

Actually, that's more of a rant than a clarification, but I'll let it stand.

Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#142

Post by sliverstorm »

Riesling wrote: post #45

Whenever I am using a program other than vim I feel clumsy. Plugins for Eclipse, Chrome and so on will only bring you so far. The other way around, namely turning vim into a multipurpose IDE does not satisfy my needs. One needs to admit that some features (refactoring support in Eclipse for example) cannot be matched by the available vim plugins. I know there are other solutions, like eclim, but I am looking for some…

Is there a big reason an IDE couldn't have a child editor process running inside the UI, and operate directly on the file? That would allow you to plug the editor if your choice into the IDE.

Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#143

Post by blindhippo »

daniel_iversen wrote: post #100

I really don't get how its more efficient than a modern editor! I use vi(m?) when I am working on a unix/linux/mac terminal and have done so for 10+ years. But I never bothered learning it properly so I only know a handful or two of commands. So I can't appreciate both perspectives clearly. However, how can it be faster and more efficient to edit in vi than in a modern editor? I'd assume that if you can use multi ges…

I've used Vi(m) enough to know that I'm far more efficient in an editor designed to work with my OS.

Knowing Vi (or Emacs) is essential as a software developer, but using it as your local code editor has never made sense to me.

What most people who pontificated about Vi/Emacs/editor-of-choice often fail to realize is that there isn't a "One True Way To Do Things Bestest". Everyone works differently. Using Vi for 30+ hours isn't going to make me a better developer - and it certainly isn't going to speed up anything.

Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#145

Post by ludwigvan »

metaobject wrote: post #76
drblast wrote: post #19

Don't ever start using vi. After you do, any text editor that you are forced to use that doesn't have vi key bindings will give you fits and make you cry. Learning vi is your standard process of enlightenment and elation followed by a lifetime of disappointment. Think about how you'd feel if you ate the best meal of your life at age 13, and the restaurant where you ate it went out of business the next day. You'll be…

Don't ever start using emacs. After you do, any text editor that you are forced to use that doesn't have emacs key bindings will give you fits and make you cry. Learning emacs is your standard process of enlightenment and elation followed by a lifetime of disappointment. Think about how you'd feel if you ate the best meal of your life at age 13, and the restaurant where you ate it went out of business the next day. Y…

I think a lot of other editors (even in Visual Studio, Netbeans, Eclipse) have emacs keybindings though, so the situation is much better for an emacs user. It is much easier to implement due to modelessness of emacs.

Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#146

Post by macco »

dchest wrote: post #83
macco wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it really make sense, using an editor more than a year and still have trouble with rather basic functions? Use an editor you can use right away and whose controlls don't contradicts with the rest of the software you use. I don't believe in vim neither I don't belive in plain Emacs. Just my 2 cents

To the certain extent, yes, it makes sense. This trouble is rather small compared to benefits. I'm in constant search for the perfect editor, but every editor has its quirks, and of course, most editors require learning. As for the controls that contradict with the rest of the software, there's no trouble for me at all. I don't suddenly start pressing :wq in the browser. As a simple example, consider people like me,…

Good for you. For me this was a real problem :(

This is why I use ErgoEmacs :)

Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#147

Post by jjcm »

qdog wrote: post #115
brown9-2 wrote: post #18

One of the great things about vim is that even if you use it as your regular editor (I use MacVim), you tend to learn something new every time you read a new article. Today I learned about the '.' command. Also, old discussion on same article: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=151637

Yeah, I've never used the autoindent command before, either. Oops. Been manually indenting stuff with : , ,s/^/\t/ for years now, oof.

= will also indent any selection you have automagically. gg=G will do your whole document, and V[selection]= will give you a selection range to indent. are nice as well for indenting specific amounts in the left or right direction.

Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#148

Post by jjcm »

boofar wrote: post #29

There are some video tutorials by Derek Wyatt that have been recommended on HN a few times: http://www.derekwyatt.org/vim/vim-tutorial-videos/

Vimcasts is also a nice series of video tutorials, and the author's accent is lovely to listen to.

http://vimcasts.org

Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#149

Post by maxerickson »

javajosh wrote: post #130

I'm realizing that the distinction between vim/emacs and typical IDE editors is entropy. Vim is extraordinarily precise - very low entropy at all times. An IDE editor is constantly moving between high entropy (e.g. mouse motion) and low entropy (e.g. the interpretation of the mouse motion as a precise command). This implies that vim appeals to minds that desire constant precision, and GUI editors appeal to minds that…

Is such a split between types of minds a real thing?

Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#150

Post by staunch »

sukuriant wrote: post #137
staunch wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easier for a beginner ≠ better for an expert.

Better for expert != harder for beginner

It's not impossible to make tools that are easy for amateurs and powerful for professionals, but empirically it's rare.

The reason is pretty simple. Take any tool, like Notepad, and start making it better for professional usage. Pretty soon it's full of features and shortcuts that help professionals and confuse amateurs.

It's as it should be though. It makes good sense for professionals to spend more time upfront learning more powerful tools because the savings over their career will be massive.

The amateur won't see any benefit from spending a lot of time learning if they only use the tool for a short period.

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