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Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

viemu.com

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Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#81

Post by burke »

metaobject wrote: post #76
drblast wrote: post #19

Don't ever start using vi. After you do, any text editor that you are forced to use that doesn't have vi key bindings will give you fits and make you cry. Learning vi is your standard process of enlightenment and elation followed by a lifetime of disappointment. Think about how you'd feel if you ate the best meal of your life at age 13, and the restaurant where you ate it went out of business the next day. You'll be…

Don't ever start using emacs. After you do, any text editor that you are forced to use that doesn't have emacs key bindings will give you fits and make you cry. Learning emacs is your standard process of enlightenment and elation followed by a lifetime of disappointment. Think about how you'd feel if you ate the best meal of your life at age 13, and the restaurant where you ate it went out of business the next day. Y…

As someone who used emacs for five years before switching to vim, my personal experience was that the top-level comment is more true than this one.

Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#82

Post by moe »

dchest wrote: post #21

I use vim for about a year or more, and I like it, however I'm still having trouble with copying and pasting tiny fragments of text. Maybe someone can help me out with this? 1) If I yank a line with yy, pressing P or p will insert the text into a new line. 2) If I go to visual mode and select a region, yank it with y, then press p/P, it gets it inserted into the current line. That is, vim preserves new lines. What I…

What I normally do is:

1) 'J' to join the two lines after paste

2) op or Op

Perhaps there's an even "easier" way, but for me these keystrokes have long been recorded to muscle-memory, I don't even notice them anymore.

Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#83

Post by dchest »

macco wrote: post #68
dchest wrote: post #21

I use vim for about a year or more, and I like it, however I'm still having trouble with copying and pasting tiny fragments of text. Maybe someone can help me out with this? 1) If I yank a line with yy, pressing P or p will insert the text into a new line. 2) If I go to visual mode and select a region, yank it with y, then press p/P, it gets it inserted into the current line. That is, vim preserves new lines. What I…

Does it really make sense, using an editor more than a year and still have trouble with rather basic functions? Use an editor you can use right away and whose controlls don't contradicts with the rest of the software you use. I don't believe in vim neither I don't belive in plain Emacs. Just my 2 cents

To the certain extent, yes, it makes sense. This trouble is rather small compared to benefits. I'm in constant search for the perfect editor, but every editor has its quirks, and of course, most editors require learning.

As for the controls that contradict with the rest of the software, there's no trouble for me at all. I don't suddenly start pressing :wq in the browser. As a simple example, consider people like me, who use two keyboard layouts: one for their native language and the other one for English. Even punctuation marks are on the different keys, but I don't have trouble typing the correct ones depending on the current layout.

Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#84

Post by kstenerud »

tomjen3 wrote: post #74
kstenerud wrote: post #69

I've never really felt comfortable in vi. I first started using it in 1989 at home, used it throughout college, and then used it on-and-off during my career, but it's never really felt powerful compared to a GUI editor. I want a scrollbar. I want a list of files in my project that I can just click on to open. I want tabs I can click. I want multiple windows that I can alt-tab to. And since I spend most of my time thi…

It is very nice to have a tab for each of your files. Until you have twenty files open and you can't find the right one (will happen sooner than you think, at least on largeish projects).

I like having 20+ tabs open, provided the text editor supports multiple rows of tabs so you can see the names.

Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#85

Post by eropple »

funkah wrote: post #59

> The first time you stumble into vi or vim, you are shocked and disgusted that you have to use 'i' to start typing text. Can't remember which of hjkl moves in which direction. And you need to press 'a' if you want to insert after the last character of the line. Since you're already probably used to other editors, and if the arrow keys work in insert mode (they do if the system is configured properly, which is over 9…

Not that I'm a big fan of the douchey tone of the article writer, and apparently unlike this dude I find it trivial to switch between vim and Sublime Text or whatever other editor without having a crying jag, but...wait for it...vim does let you use the arrow keys.

He seems to be conflating vi and vim (personally I've only used vi once or twice in the last five years). Also, his grand sweeping pronouncement that you spend all your time in normal mode is, to me, utterly bizarre. I go into normal mode to do text manipulation. I live in insert mode because I'm actually writing stuff. In that respect it feels like every other editor ever.

Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#86

Post by calloc »

dasil003 wrote: post #13
zokier wrote: post #10

I'd be interested to know how much of the stuff presented in the article is actually present in plain vi (not vim). If you mean vim, then say vim, not vi. They are two different things.

What's the biggest OS distribution that does not have vi mapped to vim by default these days?

FreeBSD. Although it is mapped to nvi instead, ever since 4.4BSD.

Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#87

Post by eropple »

tomjen3 wrote: post #74
kstenerud wrote: post #69

I've never really felt comfortable in vi. I first started using it in 1989 at home, used it throughout college, and then used it on-and-off during my career, but it's never really felt powerful compared to a GUI editor. I want a scrollbar. I want a list of files in my project that I can just click on to open. I want tabs I can click. I want multiple windows that I can alt-tab to. And since I spend most of my time thi…

It is very nice to have a tab for each of your files. Until you have twenty files open and you can't find the right one (will happen sooner than you think, at least on largeish projects).

I currently have 55 tabs open in IntelliJ (I counted). I have no trouble finding any of them. Side tabs and alphabetical sort are great.

Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#88

Post by bmj »

tomjen3 wrote: post #74
kstenerud wrote: post #69

I've never really felt comfortable in vi. I first started using it in 1989 at home, used it throughout college, and then used it on-and-off during my career, but it's never really felt powerful compared to a GUI editor. I want a scrollbar. I want a list of files in my project that I can just click on to open. I want tabs I can click. I want multiple windows that I can alt-tab to. And since I spend most of my time thi…

It is very nice to have a tab for each of your files. Until you have twenty files open and you can't find the right one (will happen sooner than you think, at least on largeish projects).

Yes, this. About a year ago, I finally bothered to understand the buffer concept in vim (after a brief stint in emacs), and suddenly any tabbed editor felt clumsy.

Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#89

Post by mechanical_fish »

jng wrote: post #48
electrichead wrote: post #39

I know this will be an unpopular comment, but my whole problem with it is actually the attitude of those that use it. After reading the article, I was really impressed and imagining all the ways it could help me after what, 8 years of coding into an IDE; and then I got to this: "Do whatever you want. Don't learn it if you feel it's too much effort just for nothing. Learn emacs instead. Or stay in your IDE using a lou…

I'm the author of the article. Yes, the ending is anticlimatic, but the only reason is that I didn't want to "push" it on people. I just wanted to share my views. I thought many people would complain of fanboyism if I finished with a push to use it. I guess you just can't please everyone.

Some unsolicited advice:

Never use the word "fanboy". It's a word used by people who hate joy.

Other people will call you a fanboy no matter what you do. Ignore these people.

You are a fan of vi. Nobody is fooled by your disclaimers: The joy shines through. This is not a problem. Advocate vi with pride!

Re: Why, oh why, do those nutheads use vi?

#90

Post by drhowarddrfine »

kstenerud wrote: post #69

I've never really felt comfortable in vi. I first started using it in 1989 at home, used it throughout college, and then used it on-and-off during my career, but it's never really felt powerful compared to a GUI editor. I want a scrollbar. I want a list of files in my project that I can just click on to open. I want tabs I can click. I want multiple windows that I can alt-tab to. And since I spend most of my time thi…

Just the opposite. I find all that distracting. My hands never leave the keyboard. The mouse is a nuisance. I'm far more productive without all the GUI crap.
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