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IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

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Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#141

Post by hef19898 »

fweimer wrote: post #65

I think IRIS² is actually an extension of the EU's GOVSATCOM initiative: https://defence-industry-space.ec.europa.eu/eu-space-policy/... This means it's for government use, and is not really comparable to commercial end user services.

Well, in Europe most palces can be reached either by fibre or 5G relatively easily, it is a quite densly populated cintinent after all. Let's ignore Germany's utter failure to build out fast internet, which is story of its own and totally unrelated to the EU in general.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#142

Post by JumpCrisscross »

WithinReason wrote: post #124
defrost wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are 10s of thousands planned and other companies eager to put up their own constellations. Those that fall are planned to fall and to be replaced .. the issue is that are now thousands (and will be more) sats in LEO orbits polluting the night sky with both visible light and transmission spectra energy. Doesn't matter much to those that live in cities and can't see the stars in any case .. but it's a blight to t…

They are not visible to people when the satellites are in the shadow of the Earth (at night)

> are not visible to people when the satellites are in the shadow of the Earth (at night)

Night is altitude dependent. Satellites can be in sunlight while the ground below is pitch black. (That said, I find the complaints about visual pollution silly.)

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#143

Post by culturestate »

arlort wrote: post #128
culturestate wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The release specifically addresses commercial use: > This future satellite constellation infrastructure will allow for synergies with private sector to develop commercial services and provide with high-speed internet and communication in all EU territory, including over isolated regions where terrestrial and broadband connection remain scarce. As does the page you linked: > The system will also allow mass-market appl…

All official releases only mention government use, I think the idea might be to use a government contract to help the industry develop know-how for private use later on

> All official releases only mention government use...

The second quote I pulled above is from an official source[1]. It seems pretty clear to me that it's intended as a dual-use constellation, with government services coming online first and an allotment for commercial services later. One of the two key objectives in the downloadable fact sheet[2] is:

> Allow for the provision of commercial services by the private sector, to enable the availability of high-speed broadband and seamless connectivity throughout Europe, removing dead zones.

1. https://defence-industry-space.ec.europa.eu/eu-space-policy/...

2. https://defence-industry-space.ec.europa.eu/system/files/202...

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#144

Post by peterfirefly »

sschueller wrote: post #74
inglor_cz wrote: post #2

[flagged]

That is just not the case. Look at companies like AMSL which no one comes even close. It is likely that every device you own has a microchip made with a machine by AMSL. Is it sexy? Is there a narcissistic tweeting CEO? No, but there is inovasion at the highest level. The mRNA vaccine also came out of the "EU". What the EU has little off and what you are probably complaining about it throwing money at a hundred thing…

> The mRNA vaccine also came out of the "EU".

Why did BioNTech have to partner up with American Pfizer to get anywhere with their (groundbreaking!) technology? Why did we give the Americans the secret sauce?

> Rampent capitalism causes people to suffer and die.

Ill-informed but strongly held attitudes like that are a big problem in the EU. There would be a lot fewer people on Earth and they would suffer a lot more if we didn't have Capitalism. They would suffer even less if we had more of it.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#145

Post by lispm »

petterparker wrote: post #126
lispm wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> downvotes without rebuttals you are trolling. Estonia has high-tech exports of 2.6 billion USD. Germany has high-tech exports of around 200 billion USD, which makes it world-wide number three, with the US being number four. Data from the World Bank. The city I live in has roughly four times the GDP of Estonia. We have for example one of the largest civil airplane manufacturing sites here. 40000 people are employed…

Also ignoring that estonia has a population of only about 1.3 million, let alone the geographic size. It's a tiny country, which makes it easier to build infrastructure. Estonia has received heavy subsidies from the EU which went towards infrastructure projects. Germany on the other hand is the largest financial contributor to the EU by far. [1] The plan has worked, to share the success of the big economic powers wit…

It's great to see those countries making good progress. Investment is important, but the countries need to make it work, which Estonia is a positive example.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#146

Post by microtonal »

nbevans wrote: post #54

They still haven't finished Galileo yet; with the project seemingly going backwards ever since the British were forced out. How will they deliver yet another moonshot project like this? They don't even possess reusable rocket technology yet to make such a LEO project economically viable.

Yet, I can switch on my GPSr, use Galileo and get higher accuracy than GLONASS/GPS.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#147

Post by peterfirefly »

lispm wrote: post #123
inglor_cz wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Mittelstand is pretty much the only reason why Germany's prosperity is still a thing. Countries like Italy and Spain, which lack this backbone of mid-sized companies, are in deep trouble and unlikely to get out of it. But there were times when German companies actually were world leaders in the big things as well, not just reliable suppliers to foreign big players. Don't you count this as a regression?

> But there were times when German companies actually were world leaders in the big things as well We have the world leader in civil aerospace in France/Germany, Many high-speed trains in the world are coming from France or Germany. There are many large high-tech sectors. It's nice that Estonia is successful, but it's not where the next big chip manufacturing sites will be build. Intel and TSMC are in talks to move t…

I love trains -- but planes are usually a better solution than high-speed trains.

They will be an even better solution when we have small electric jets, especially for inter-European flights.

Do you think the first practical electric jet will come from a subsidized EU development plan -- or from a VP funded US company?

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#148

Post by hef19898 »

inglor_cz wrote: post #115
touisteur wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And even there, if you look at the sheer amount of R&D projects funded by the EU... Anyone serious can't say the EU doesn't invest massively in R&D. Interestingly enough, most of what I see funded and successfully becoming products are incremental development (increasing wireless bandwidth for specific apps or constraints, improving industrial productivity or getting to next gen for any tech) and few moonshots. I wor…

This kind of incremental development has been criticized a lot, precisely because it discourages scientists from trying anything audacious. Developing a slightly more efficient telegraph line every year still does not beat inventing e-mail. Whenever you introduce large bureaucracy into any process, risk mitigation becomes the main goal of the most important actors, at the cost of all the previous goals.

Who again came up with the first mRNA Covid vaccine?

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#149

Post by hef19898 »

peterfirefly wrote: post #144
sschueller wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is just not the case. Look at companies like AMSL which no one comes even close. It is likely that every device you own has a microchip made with a machine by AMSL. Is it sexy? Is there a narcissistic tweeting CEO? No, but there is inovasion at the highest level. The mRNA vaccine also came out of the "EU". What the EU has little off and what you are probably complaining about it throwing money at a hundred thing…

> The mRNA vaccine also came out of the "EU". Why did BioNTech have to partner up with American Pfizer to get anywhere with their (groundbreaking!) technology? Why did we give the Americans the secret sauce? > Rampent capitalism causes people to suffer and die. Ill-informed but strongly held attitudes like that are a big problem in the EU. There would be a lot fewer people on Earth and they would suffer a lot more if…

Production capacity, as simple as that. Nothing else.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#150

Post by inglor_cz »

lispm wrote: post #123
inglor_cz wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Mittelstand is pretty much the only reason why Germany's prosperity is still a thing. Countries like Italy and Spain, which lack this backbone of mid-sized companies, are in deep trouble and unlikely to get out of it. But there were times when German companies actually were world leaders in the big things as well, not just reliable suppliers to foreign big players. Don't you count this as a regression?

> But there were times when German companies actually were world leaders in the big things as well We have the world leader in civil aerospace in France/Germany, Many high-speed trains in the world are coming from France or Germany. There are many large high-tech sectors. It's nice that Estonia is successful, but it's not where the next big chip manufacturing sites will be build. Intel and TSMC are in talks to move t…

"The EU has a lot to catch up in many countries"

The trouble is that this has been known since at least the late 1990s, discussed quite often, plans made, and yet the gap hasn't grown appreciably smaller. It has arguably widened. 15 years ago, you could choose from a plentitude of European feature phones. Now the vast majority of our own mobile phone market is dominated by US or East Asian products.

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