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Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

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Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#141

Post by [deleted] »

n0tth3dro1ds wrote: post #101
countercul wrote: post #78

Having the median beliefs and political opinions of your grandparents is counter culture enough that you will be banned from pretty much any social media website.

Grandparents? How about Obama (or most mainstream Dems) from ~2006 >against gay marriage >against illegal immigration, supported erecting physical barriers >pro wars in Middle East You surely do not need to go back two generations to get shrieked out of a room. Just dip back ~10 - 15 years into mainstream Democrat positioning.

[deleted]

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#142

Post by donatj »

We live in a time without major trials or struggle. It’s lead by and large to people that have little to say. Most people’s lives are by the measure of any other generation in history more-or-less perfect. The average persons quality of life surpass that of Royalty not that long ago - access to exotic fruits in off seasons, all the nations libraries in your pocket, lack of any kind of physical labor.

We are all princes of our own kingdoms.

Our gripes today are so minor previous generations would have largely found them laughable. It’s why so much of our decent media depicts the past. It’s hard to make a compelling story about social media addiction. It’s been done, but it’s difficult.

We’re approaching Brave New World much more quickly than I’d ever anticipated reading it in the 90s.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#143

Post by Pigalowda »

drewcon wrote: post #114

I’m going to get flamed for this but at this point the closest we’re getting to counter culture is the exact opposite… “Trads”. Young people with super traditional values doing exactly the opposite of most of what you just listed. No one would seriously suggest the trendiest most mainstream supported or glorified lifestyles (van life, queerness, gig work) are counter culture…that IS the culture; there’s very little c…

I think you are right. The US kinda feels like Asimov’s foundation, especially in the west coast. Fewer people acting like adults and more people chasing dopamine and letting entropy do its damage.

Maybe I just need to stop taking public transportation and walking the city. Perhaps suburbs feel further from the precipice.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#144

Post by Jensson »

viraptor wrote: post #82
n0tth3dro1ds wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>BLM >LGBT >counter culture Endlessly supported by literally every news outlet, major tech company, big 5 sports league, F1000, university, and at least half of the political class. You’re not counter to any major institution, lmao. You’re not the resistance

Changing the colour of your logo on a certain date is not really "supporting". Corps gonna corp and if changing the logo and publishing some nice post brings more money, they'll do it. (While donating to Republicans at the same time)

If signalling support for X is good publicity then X is mainstream regardless of intentions.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#145

Post by throwaway4aday »

jl6 wrote: post #76

Personally I think the word “counterculture” should be retired, as we no longer live in monocultural societies. We no longer gather round any shared fireplace. For a counterculture to meaningfully exist, it has to be somehow discordant with a dominant narrative - but there is no dominant narrative any more. The west is not ruled by the left or the right or the church or the state. We are all fragmenting off into echo…

Speaking of bubbles, it seems like you're in a pretty big one. To speak directly to your comment. The shared fireplace is now composed of streaming services, news, and social media with its heavily censored content. There is a very strong dominant narrative in society right now, in the US it is somewhat two pronged but those tines are joined at the handle. The Western leaders all subscribe to the same clubs and seem to do a pretty good job of agreeing on the policies they introduce. The bubbles you speak of are all created and driven by the same underlying forces that have shaped media since the early 20th century. If you want to start to pull off the blinders, read Propaganda by Bernays. He lays things out pretty clearly since he was arguing for the use of it to intelligently manage society. If you take each principal he gives and imagine how it would be applied to modern media and technology you'll see things with new eyes.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#146

Post by jmeister »

pessimizer wrote: post #93

A counterculture requires privacy, and we're increasingly becoming a society of constant surveillance and permanent records shared between authorities, a society that is very suspicious when people speak to each other without an intermediary escalating anything interesting being said to their manager.

Exactly. A counter culture needs some room to take risks. You can’t do that with the Damocles’ sword of visibility/virality hanging over you 24x7. The other comment about being offline is right. You’ll find some cool pseudonymous writers online too.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#147

Post by willcipriano »

cfltlayoffs wrote: post #23
mellosouls wrote: post #16

I see the counter culture over the last few years as the less obnoxious elements of the alt-right/conservative and centrist/"classic liberal" in their opposition to the overreach and oppression by the "liberal"/left especially in their domination of big tech and classic media. However, as the recognition of that unpleasant latter tendency has become mainstream and everybody and her grandma now knows what "woke" means…

What are the great creative works you identify with the alt-right? I know lots of great leftist artists, musicians, etc. but I don't see alt-righters making a lot of daring indie cinema for instance.

Like gays in the 50s, conservatives in Hollywood (and at big tech) are careful not to out themselves. Given that Hollywood has lots of wealthy, business oriented people much of the media you like was made by conservatives without you knowing.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#148

Post by hutzlibu »

magic_hamster wrote: post #25
bmj wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there never was stronger counterculture than today I disagree. Can you expand on your claim? YouTube and TikTok are not countercultural, even if some users are using those platforms for genuine countercultural creative acts. By definition, a social media "influencer" with millions of followers is not countercultural.

YouTube and TikTok are not counterculture but they are the platforms where counterculture happens. > a social media "influencer" with millions of followers is not countercultural. A social media "influencer" could be more important to a younger audience than other mediums, meaning this is the "culture" they will try to counter. Edit: narrowed it down a little.

" they are the platforms where counterculture happens"

And where exactly can I find them?

Trough the corporate algorithm, that doesn't even let me rewind a video?

Counterculture exists and sone of those expose their lifestyle and projects on these plattforms for fame and money, but that culture surely does not "live" on those plattforms.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#149

Post by thebooktocome »

YurgenJurgensen wrote: post #99
cfltlayoffs wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a superficial understanding of "support". They make their logo rainbow for a month. None of the groups you mentioned support police abolition, prison abolition, for instance. Police budgets still go up. Homeless encampments still get bulldozed. Black people are still killed by police. Capitalists have co-opted the least disruptive demands of advocates in an attempt to draw attention away from the actual…

If your culture is well-known enough and seen as desirable enough that you start having to no-true-scotsman to differentiate between the corporate poseurs and the true believers, it's a pretty strong sign that you're not a counterculture anymore. People don't try to fake having low cultural status.

> People don’t try to fake having low cultural status.

They do. One of the most successful directors of all time built his career telling stories about faking low cultural status.

Perhaps that’s too abstract. But if people don’t fake low culture, then what is Hillbilly Elegy?

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#150

Post by AmericanChopper »

zirgs wrote: post #115
AmericanChopper wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like gatekeeping to me. I know LGBT culture generally used to be edgy and underground. But widespread mainstream acceptance means that’s not really true anymore.

In other countries it's still kinda "edgy". Yeah - gay pride is allowed and my bank changed its app icon to include rainbow colours. There also are no "LGBT propaganda" laws so gay-friendly pop culture is allowed. (Like movies depicting same sex families) But at the same time gay marriages and civil unions are both illegal. Adoption for gay couples is illegal too. Even if they are performed abroad. The state still tr…

The article (and my comments, and I believe the comments I was replying to) are referring to the United States.
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