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D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

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Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#141

Post by Ferret7446 »

dx034 wrote: post #125
mixmastamyk wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want transportation free of sleepers and walking dead, there must be fares and gates. Otherwise you’ll end up with the horrors of the LA Metro… meth heads smoking up, stairs dripping with blood, etc.

Many European cities have low flat fares and no gates. And yet, they don't encounter the problems LA has. Maybe it's a problem of society and not public transport.

Even if it's due to society, what are you going to do? Burn LA/CA to the ground and rebuild its society and culture to your tastes? The fact is that in the context of LA, fares and gates are needed.

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#142

Post by cinntaile »

Retric wrote: post #81
WillPostForFood wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2020 data is totally wrecked because of Covid. Check the 2019 data for comparison. Average is 39%. NY was 54%, WMATA was 39%. https://www.transit.dot.gov/sites/fta.dot.gov/files/2020-11/...

That 39% is for all transit Bus is 19.7% Nationally and 13.6% for WMATA. Nationally in millions, Bus: (Fare Revenues 3,778) / (Operating expenses 16,110.4 + Use of capital funds 3,0444.7) = 19.7%. They also break out Bus Rapid Transit which is much worse 16.1 / (166.1 + 51.7) = 7.4% as is Commuter Bus 57.9 / (597.7 + 170.7) = 7.5% Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority, Bus: $124,011,141 / ( $731,946,008 + $1…

That's a solved problem, don't allow paying on the bus and require them to buy their ticket beforehand.

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#143

Post by rektide »

siruncledrew wrote: post #114

As someone who has ridden the DC bus before (mostly when the Metro broke), "free" meets the mark on the only price I'd pay to use it again. Aside from the other stuff you can probably picture, it's slow AF and takes longer to move between popular spots than drudging through traffic in a car or Uber. Now making the Metro free... that would pique people's interest.

It really depends. I biked a lot too but my commute north to Silver Spring was quite speedy, and it was more pleasant riding in this lovely city aboveground than underneath, for less money & significantly shorter travel time. Alas enforcement is not good, but DC has also made a signicant number of bus lanes that also do sometimes help.

There's a good number of limited-stop bus routes that span some pretty long routes that would require much more cross-city metro riding, and serving many places the metro doesnt conveniently service at all. My feeling is generally the opposite of yours- actual urbanites are good at & love the buses, know some real handy convenient routes, and people further afield tend to only know & try the much simpler & more limited metrorail. DC just isnt that big; a handful of stops if you're going 2-4 miles is not really a concern.

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#144

Post by senttoschool »

alwayslikethis wrote: post #3

Making transit free really misses the point. The money is much better spent on actually improving the transit options, such as buying more buses to improve frequency, building new tram or rail lines, or general maintenance (cleaning) that make using the transit more appealing for all but the most desperate. Look at all the cities in Asia and Europe where normal people use transit. Very few of them are free, though th…

There seems to be a lot more crazy and mentally ill people in major US cities than major Asian cities. It was extremely rare for me to encounter them in Asia but I encountered so many in the US that I just started driving. It kept my sanity.

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#145

Post by senttoschool »

dx034 wrote: post #125
mixmastamyk wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want transportation free of sleepers and walking dead, there must be fares and gates. Otherwise you’ll end up with the horrors of the LA Metro… meth heads smoking up, stairs dripping with blood, etc.

Many European cities have low flat fares and no gates. And yet, they don't encounter the problems LA has. Maybe it's a problem of society and not public transport.

It's funny how every time these things get brought up, some body will always write "well, there wouldn't be crackheads on the bus if our society was perfect. Let's make society better first, then we can solve crackheads on busses".

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#146

Post by rippercushions »

incone123 wrote: post #124
rippercushions wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Single fares in Switzerland are indeed extortionate, but there are a wide variety of passes that cut costs considerably, including one that gives you free travel throughout the entire country. https://www.sbb.ch/en/travelcards-and-tickets/railpasses/ga....

There's a pass that gives actual free travel, or just unlimited travel for a fixed price?

You pay CHF 3860 upfront, and you get a magical card that lets you ride (almost) every train and bus in Switzerland as much as you like for a year.

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#147

Post by dools »

midoridensha wrote: post #140
dools wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we should think about providing houses for homeless people instead of trying to kick them off public transport then ...

They tried that in places like New York, and it hasn't worked out well. The problems are much deeper than people just not having a place to live, for many of them.

Then perhaps they need a house and a job, and mental and physical healthcare. And perhaps that needs to be provided for a few decades to reverse the generational trauma caused by involuntary unemployment and poverty.

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#148

Post by midoridensha »

dools wrote: post #147
midoridensha wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They tried that in places like New York, and it hasn't worked out well. The problems are much deeper than people just not having a place to live, for many of them.

Then perhaps they need a house and a job, and mental and physical healthcare. And perhaps that needs to be provided for a few decades to reverse the generational trauma caused by involuntary unemployment and poverty.

The people causing the problems people complain about can't hold down a job, and will trash any house they're given. What they need is to be put in a mental institution, but that became unfashionable during the 80s for some reason. With proper help, some of them probably could be returned to society. And of course there are many who are just victims of circumstance; those really should be helped with housing and jobs, though it's arguable that being homeless for too long has caused some of these people to turn into those needing acute mental care, so there is that.

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#149

Post by zbrozek »

yuliyp wrote: post #107
zbrozek wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I drive a cheap EV which I charge for free. A marginal mile costs me about 18 cents. On top of that I'm usually traveling to SF to visit friends with my wife. Hard to justify taking the train.

How do you figure 18 cents? a $30k EV amortized across 200k miles is 15 cents alone. Add any maintenance on top of that and you're easily over 18 cents of marginal cost per mile before electricity or any other amortizable costs (risk of accident, tolls, parking, etc).

Don't buy new (and best do it during the early pandemic crash) and don't pay for electricity. Running costs are primarily insurance, registration, and tires. Have a long commute so you strongly amortize those first two.

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#150

Post by scrollaway »

midoridensha wrote: post #138
scrollaway wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things working / not working in one outlier city is not grounds for "complaints like yours ring hollow". You know Tokyo is the most populated city in the world, right. The solutions in place there will HAVE to be different to anywhere else on the planet. It's like a Google engineer talking about how some random SaaS's complaints about Heroku or whatever are "hollow, because here at Google we use solution X and it wor…

>You know Tokyo is the most populated city in the world, right. The solutions in place there will HAVE to be different to anywhere else on the planet. Wrong. The laws of physics are not different in other places. The complaint was that it takes too long to collect fares. This is factually untrue, and Japan's system (it uses the same system nationwide) proves this. It's a solved problem. In other places, it can be eve…

You missed the point by far enough that it’s not even worth arguing with you. Believe whatever you want, it’s not you I need to convince in order to get more free public transit in the world anyway…
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