Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row • Hacker News Board

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#141

Post by fdschoeneman » Sat, Jan 14, 2023, 1:21 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #108

nnx wrote: post #31

This is really sad as it will probably cause unnecessary children deaths down the road. I think public health authorities have serious soul-searching to do, this outcome was clearly warned upon by a lot of doctors and paediatricians who seen first hand parents not understanding why those authorities were pushing so hard novel mrna covid-19 vaccines on healthy children that were basically not at risk from this disease…

No, it is fault of those who push against vaccines super hard for political reasons. It is absurd to blame anyone else at the point where we are. There are groups who are intentionally trying to convince people to not vaccinate. When people listen to them, it is theor fault.

There are some crazy anti vaxxers who are responsible for some of this, but those people were doing their crazy before the pandemic. While they may account for some of this vaccination rate reduction, it's unlikely to account for all of it. Governments worldwide, Joe Biden, his administration, Fauci in particular and the CDC, and all the vaccine makers lied. Some of the lies were big and some were small but so many of them seemed unnecessary. Combined with censorship of legitimate medical and scientific opinion by social media platforms under threat state punishment, therefore, it seems the most likely explanation for this reduction is loss of trust in our medical establishment and authorities. Parents think the lockdowns were stupid. And they were. They think the vaccinations were unnecessary. And they were. They were lied to. And some of them now believe everything these same incompetent liars are saying about other vaccines, including polio and flu, is also a lie.

Trust is difficult to gain and easy to lose. The medical community should have understood this. It should have spoken up. It should not have allowed secret censorship. It have done the right thing. It did the wrong thing and now the rest of have to pay.

Yes, they should search their souls.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#142

Post by philjohn » Sat, Jan 14, 2023, 1:21 PM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #53

guidedlight wrote: post #39

Under Australia's "No Jab, No Pay" laws, families cannot receive government taxation benefits for their unvaccinated children. In addition, some states require an up to date vaccination record to be enrolled in pre-school, kindergarten, and in some states, primary school. Interestingly, it was News Limited (parent company of Fox News) that championed these laws. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Jab,_No_Pay

I have very mixed feelings about this policy. I don't want my government taking my money in taxes, then deploying it as welfare conditional on unrelated policies. Particularly because once the have this leverage they'll make more widespread use of it. Some (all, in fact) of the anti-vaxxers I know are extremely upstanding small businesspeople. I can imagine in the next pandemic that (1) the government will tax them h…

Except, can you point me to wher they've gone further and used this leverage for other things? The No Job, No Pay is old at this point.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#143

Post by realjhol » Sat, Jan 14, 2023, 1:22 PM UTC

mrphoebs wrote: post #131

realjhol wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> natural immunity would provide far greater protection > false True: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2203965 > vaccines wouldn't prevent transmission, The vaccines were never tested to prevent transmission: https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2022/10/12/pfizer-vaccine-not-tes... -- and indeed they do not prevent transmission, or infection for that matter. Many many people, from Joe Biden to my own mother have be…

Lockdowns did help flatten the curve, many countries health systems were overwhelmed regardless, but without lockdowns the fatalities and outcomes for severe cases would have been an order of magnitude worse. -> personal experience: I survived only because I was able to get an ICU bed at the right time as did millions more in my country. Millions more didn't because the health systems were overwhelmed. It's hard to t…

> Lockdowns did help flatten the curve, many countries health systems were overwhelmed regardless, but without lockdowns the fatalities and outcomes for severe cases would have been an order of magnitude worse.

There's no evidence to support this assertion, and plenty of evidence to the contrary e.g. Sweden.

> It's hard to take your argument in good faith when you offhandedly say stuff like this -> "A lot of that stuff turneded out to be fabricated, but it spooked a lot of folks."

But a lot of what spread around was fake:

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/cor...

https://www.opindia.com/2021/04/nypost-fake-news-people-dyin...

https://www.concordmonitor.com/Burning-bodies-Mass-graves-Ec...

https://nypost.com/2022/05/27/kamloops-mass-grave-debunked-b...

https://reason.com/2020/04/10/no-nyc-is-not-running-out-of-b...

> Look at the hell china is going through right now

The hell is of the chinese governments own making. A Zero COVID policy cannot possibly work.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#144

Post by philjohn » Sat, Jan 14, 2023, 1:26 PM UTC

passwordoops wrote: post #28

There's a frightening crisis of trust in authority, and frankly those in authority are the only ones to blame. It's been brewing for decades. More recent causes of this decay: -mixed messaging on basics from NIH on COVID in the early days, including outright lies (remember when wearing masks was bad for you?) -> Elites are clueless -Mixed messaging from pretty much every global leader about the best approach to handl…

You fail to account for the rise in the (mostly) right wing grifters who make money from being contrarian.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#145

Post by pclmulqdq » Sat, Jan 14, 2023, 1:27 PM UTC

blibble wrote: post #135

pclmulqdq wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not suggesting that it's normal, easy, or within the everyday functions of a cell. The parent comment said "...it's not possible..." It demonstrably is possible, and has happened before in the genetic record of humans.

reverse transcriptase is not produced by human cells, it is simply not present in the cell integrase is not produced by human cells, it is simply not present in the cell the mRNA produced by the vaccine does not have the primer site for reverse transciptase to attach if somehow RT did produce cDNA: it would not have the primer site for integrase to attach this stuff is taught to 16 year olds the probability of all of…

As I understand it, a third factor, like an additional virus is usually involved. There are many in your body. They do weird things.

Can we agree that it is not gene therapy and it is also possible for the vaccine to modify your genome in specific cases?

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#146

Post by Nextgrid » Sat, Jan 14, 2023, 1:27 PM UTC

SangareEel wrote: post #123

watwut wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it is fault of those who push against vaccines super hard for political reasons. It is absurd to blame anyone else at the point where we are. There are groups who are intentionally trying to convince people to not vaccinate. When people listen to them, it is theor fault.

[flagged]

> A vaccine we know doesn't prevent infection, transmission, sickness or death.

The data doesn't support this. Of course you could say that the data has been tampered with, but so could be whatever data you use to "know" that the vaccine doesn't work.

The vaccine could work better for sure (and maybe future ones will), but beggars can't be choosers and even if it was only 10% effective it would be better than nothing.

> People who hate my children

This reeks of paranoid/conspiracist craziness. Nobody "hates" your children, and if they did, they'd have much easier, cheaper and more effective ways to poison and kill them than vaccines.

If a government wanted to kill people en-masse, why would they put the poison in something that arises concerns/suspicions such as vaccines or medicine instead of just putting it in the food supply chain or water supply which everyone consumes without a second thought?

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#147

Post by fdschoeneman » Sat, Jan 14, 2023, 1:29 PM UTC

Avamander wrote: post #94

blumomo wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why in 2023 people still believe that C19 mRNA prevents infecting others? This myth has long been classified as wrong (unlike advertised in the beginning of its rollout)

It's just that the nuance is often ignored in the initial saying. Why do people try to debunk something out of a game of telephone instead on restoring the original information. Point has always been that people who are less ill, less severely ill, for a shorter duration, with fewer or no symptoms, have lower chances of infecting others. The urge to simplify is great but it causes these weird discussions like "does t…

I understand why Biden, his administration, fauci and the CDC lied. The telephone game effect is real. And sometimes lies are well I intentioned, if stupid. But that doesn't change the fact that they all lied to us.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#148

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 14, 2023, 1:31 PM UTC

colinb wrote: post #98

Xylakant wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the question is whether parents should be the ultimate authority on the child, and the law in many countries does not support that. The lines get drawn at different points in different countries, but many have laws against child endangerment etc. For example, in Europe it’s mandatory to send your child to school - whether the parents want it or not. Some parts of the curriculum are mandatory, whether the parents…

> For example, in Europe it’s mandatory to send your child to school No. No it isn’t. I don’t know where you’re writing from but I can tell you that home schooling is a thing in some European countries. Maybe all of them? I can say for sure and I’m unwilling to subscribe to a sweeping statement about a mass of 44 countries. It amazes me that anyone would.

[deleted]

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#149

Post by blibble » Sat, Jan 14, 2023, 1:32 PM UTC

pclmulqdq wrote: post #145

blibble wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

reverse transcriptase is not produced by human cells, it is simply not present in the cell integrase is not produced by human cells, it is simply not present in the cell the mRNA produced by the vaccine does not have the primer site for reverse transciptase to attach if somehow RT did produce cDNA: it would not have the primer site for integrase to attach this stuff is taught to 16 year olds the probability of all of…

As I understand it, a third factor, like an additional virus is usually involved. There are many in your body. They do weird things. Can we agree that it is not gene therapy and it is also possible for the vaccine to modify your genome in specific cases?

> Can we agree that it is not gene therapy

yes

> and it is also possible for the vaccine to modify your genome in specific cases?

possible in the same sense as winning the lottery 10 times in a row

or suddenly quantum tunneling through the entire surface of the earth and popping out the other side

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#150

Post by generalizations » Sat, Jan 14, 2023, 1:34 PM UTC

usea wrote: post #104

lolinder wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a parent with a very specific kind of mindset about who should be the ultimate authority on their child. I think this may be your problem: you don't perceive the parent as the ultimate authority on the child. As a tutor, you fill a strictly advisory role, not a position of authority, and even your advisory role is limited in scope. If you try to exert authority or influence outside of that scope then yes, y…

Either parents should be allowed to kill their children on a whim without consequence, or parents are not the ultimate authority over their children. They are mutually exclusive beliefs. Children aren't property. They're human beings that deserve the protection of the state. Sometimes that means protection FROM their parents.

> Either parents should be allowed to kill their children on a whim without consequence, or parents are not the ultimate authority over their children. They are mutually exclusive beliefs.

That's either a weird strawman, or you missed the point of what "ultimate authority" means here. The question is who gets the final say in how the child is cared for - if the parent thinks that something is harmful to the child, and the state says it's mandatory, who gets final say?

You're right. Children aren't property. They're human beings that deserve protection. Sometimes that means protection from the state.