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The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

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Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#141

Post by Avshalom »

yucky wrote: post #129
joecot wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original premise was that trades are where all the money is, and Gen Z should be listening to that. My point is that we were previously told: the money is in college degrees, the money is in STEM, the money is in nursing. And people invested a lot of time and money in taking that advice and it went nowhere. Then we were called stupid and foolish and entitled for believing that advice. So why aren't Gen Z taking t…

> The original premise was that trades are where all the money is Nobody has ever said the "trades are where all the money is". This premise is flawed already. > My point is that we were previously told: the money is in college degrees, the money is in STEM, the money is in nursing. And people invested a lot of time and money in taking that advice and it went nowhere. It still is. It sounds like too many people have…

"Common sense", "laws of supply and demand" imply kids probably shouldn't all rush to go be plumbers because it will decimate the pay and most of them will end up in poorly compensated jobs because on they are, on average, not special.

And wow, look, we're commenting on an article about how kids aren't rushing to go become plumbers so you're here saying what exactly?

Or did you just want to go on about kids-aint-shit and the die landed on joecot this time.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#142

Post by nostrademons »

seydor wrote: post #102
nostrademons wrote: post #24

Tradespeople will be the new software engineers in the late 2020s through 2030s. Enough that I'm considering leaving my cushy FAANG engineering manager job to become an electrician. On top of the huge supply shortage, consider that the majority of the U.S. housing stock was built during the Baby Boom suburbanization from 1950-1970, and that the average lifespan of a house's internal systems (plumbing, electrical) is…

Nah, tradespeople will be replaced with lego buildings, the same way that furniture makers were replaced with ikea

That's the plan, but reality currently falls far short of that. My sister's currently looking at modular houses. There isn't much of a price difference between them vs. building on site, and you deal with a lot of hassles around transportation, site preparation, and permitting/paperwork.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#143

Post by ghaff »

falcolas wrote: post #126
Avshalom wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>there is a finite end to the career this actually brings to mind something else: I think the idea of a career is dead for a lot of the 40 and under set. The idea that you'll have the same job for decades is just nonsense so any job that feels too specific also feels like a it'll bite you in the ass in 5 years.

A good point. I think it's even dead for the over 40 crowd, as they try and slide into a new career which they can work part time and make a living on. Given how questionable retirement as a reality is these days.

In general, reasonably lucrative part-time work for someone coming from a professional role is tricky. And even more so if you really want to have fairly fine-grained control around both weekly workload and longer vacations. Well-paying work that lets you just pick and choose something here and there and then take a month off if you feel like it are pretty uncommon.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#144

Post by convolvatron »

cudgy wrote: post #103
gsatic wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not going to get more attractive. This is where some imaginative immigration policies can help.

By imaginative, do you mean restrictive?

I assume the opposite. like other sectors in the US economy (MDs), its likely we're going to have to keep importing people to take care of us since we're all focussed on winning and don't have time to wash our own socks or bend our own conduit.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#145

Post by JumpCrisscross »

yucky wrote: post #129
joecot wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original premise was that trades are where all the money is, and Gen Z should be listening to that. My point is that we were previously told: the money is in college degrees, the money is in STEM, the money is in nursing. And people invested a lot of time and money in taking that advice and it went nowhere. Then we were called stupid and foolish and entitled for believing that advice. So why aren't Gen Z taking t…

> The original premise was that trades are where all the money is Nobody has ever said the "trades are where all the money is". This premise is flawed already. > My point is that we were previously told: the money is in college degrees, the money is in STEM, the money is in nursing. And people invested a lot of time and money in taking that advice and it went nowhere. It still is. It sounds like too many people have…

> everyone learns the law of supply and demand before adulthood, or if they haven't then they shouldn't be going to college anyway

People learn it, but I don't think many Americans actually believe it. Exhibit A is housing. Exhibit B is this bandwagoning effect around career choices.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#146

Post by yucky »

Avshalom wrote: post #141
yucky wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The original premise was that trades are where all the money is Nobody has ever said the "trades are where all the money is". This premise is flawed already. > My point is that we were previously told: the money is in college degrees, the money is in STEM, the money is in nursing. And people invested a lot of time and money in taking that advice and it went nowhere. It still is. It sounds like too many people have…

"Common sense", "laws of supply and demand" imply kids probably shouldn't all rush to go be plumbers because it will decimate the pay and most of them will end up in poorly compensated jobs because on they are, on average, not special. And wow, look, we're commenting on an article about how kids aren't rushing to go become plumbers so you're here saying what exactly? Or did you just want to go on about kids-aint-shit…

    > imply kids probably shouldn't all rush to go be plumbers
Correct, every kid shouldn't go be a plumber. Kids who might enjoy being plumbers (or electricians, or HVAC etc) should know that they can earn a good living doing it, they don't need to rack up $60k in student loans to go to an out of state college to get a useless communications degree or whatever.

Makes sense, right?

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#147

Post by nibbleshifter »

jrm4 wrote: post #138

Could this be a place where "automation/globalization/whatever" has actually destroyed the jobs? I'm not overfamiliar with a lot of them, but I could see that e.g. being a carpenter or electrician today might be different from in the past owing to "cruft" -- fewer unions, more gatekeeping in the form of regulations and guild type deals, the unreasonable scale of business, more proprietary crap to deal with, etc?

Not really.

I've family members who are tradesmen, this issue has been coming down the pipe forever.

What's killed em is apprentice wages haven't kept up with inflation for fucking years, and as for the treatment of apprentices and helpers? Garbage.

Basically decades of absolute pisstaking and abuse of newcomers ("hey, everyone goes through it, its fine!") has predictably resulted in a shortage of newcomers.

Are they willing to up the apprentice (and journeyman...) wages? Fuck off, of course not.

Almost every tradie ends up telling their kids to go to college and whatever the fuck they do, stay out of the trades.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#148

Post by commandlinefan »

UncleMeat wrote: post #33

"We need more tradespeople" seems to be an evergreen news article. My brother in law is an electrician. He is paid alright, enough to live on. But there are HUGE downsides. He does not receive health insurance. He does not get paid vacation. In order to match decent white-collar pay, he needs to work overtime. His company pushes hard to get jobs finished fast, causing people to cut safety corners. Many of his coworke…

> His company pushes hard to get jobs finished fast, causing people to cut safety corners

Man, this bothers me in software, where physical human safety isn't even on the line. I can't even imagine dealing with that when somebody could actually die.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#149

Post by JumpCrisscross »

UncleMeat wrote: post #33

"We need more tradespeople" seems to be an evergreen news article. My brother in law is an electrician. He is paid alright, enough to live on. But there are HUGE downsides. He does not receive health insurance. He does not get paid vacation. In order to match decent white-collar pay, he needs to work overtime. His company pushes hard to get jobs finished fast, causing people to cut safety corners. Many of his coworke…

> are no meaningful raises

Doesn't the career path in the trades lead to owning your own business? Obviously, not for everyone. But the scope for advancement and riches is certainly there.

Re: The skilled trades haven't caught as a career choice with Gen Z

#150

Post by nibbleshifter »

modoc wrote: post #27
lemoncookiechip wrote: post #19

It's almost as if people are less willing to work jobs that actively harm their long-term physical health (back-breaking jobs) or those harmful for their mental health (generally ones face to face with customers, customer support or high stress jobs), for a relatively small wage to said job's demands and lasting effects.

Where are you finding small wage plumbers or carpenters? All the trades here (plumbing, electrical, HVAC, carpentry (perhaps more on the finish side vs framing though) are extremely expensive, with hourly rates between $80-$150/hour. (source - did a lot of renovations on my house, and my BIL is an electrician).

Lol, the tradesman isn't taking that home.

Neither is the apprentice that probably is doing half the work.

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