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How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

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Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#141

Post by pmoriarty »

bheadmaster wrote: post #100
vga805 wrote: post #70

Ayahuasca ceremonies are among the most profound, cherished experiences of my life. I prepare for months before partaking in them to make sure my emotional, physical, and spiritual health is in a good place. And I can't imagine taking this drug without being under the care of experienced guides. I also wouldn't recommend it for anyone except those who really desire to push the limits of their mind. Some trips have fe…

It doesn't seem far fetched to me that your own mind could've manufactured such a reaction - especially if the shamans all tried to convince you that the spirits are real, and you felt "guilty" that you didn't believe them. Your mind could simulate the reaction you'd have feared you'd get if you shared your thoughts with the shamans, perhaps? I am personally very skeptical of the "realness" of anything that happens d…

"I am personally very skeptical of the "realness" of anything that happens during a hallucination."

Is it a hallucination, though? That's an open question in the scientific study of these substances and experiences.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#142

Post by boppo1 »

prox wrote: post #90
josh2600 wrote: post #54

I have friends who have done both Ayahuasca and DMT. Ayahuasca seems to be much longer acting and more intense when administered correctly (but a lot of it seems to be set and setting). DMT has two variants, the n-n and the 5-meo. Friends report the n-n to be much more visual and the 5-Meo to be more physical. 5-Meo has been known to cause seizures at high doses. I think both of these compounds raise your blood press…

People I know who have done Ayahuasca seem to me have had adverse effects on their mental health. Not the one timers, but going regularly. It’s subtle, but it seems to me they got worse regulating their emotions and rationality. Unfortunately this study is based on respondents so unlikely to uncover such a pattern.

I have also observed this.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#143

Post by pmoriarty »

nso wrote: post #104
quechimba wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They exist. Shamans work with different spirits and even have names for ones they work with. I was skeptical in the beginning but it's a different reality. Just because we can't normally see them doesn't mean they don't exist. I don't see spirits most times I drink, but I once had a gecko-like plant spirit climbing all over me... I often see beautiful patterns and landscapes. It's an amazing medicine. It cured my dep…

You seeing something when on strong drugs that you can't see when not is not strong evidence for its existence.

"You seeing something when on strong drugs that you can't see when not is not strong evidence for its existence."

This assumes that the sober state of mind takes precedence over the altered state of mind. But there's no evidence that the one is superior to the other.

One could equally claim that things that one experiences when sober does not exist, and only things that one experiences while altered does.

Which is the more real? There's no "objective" standpoint one could take to evaluate the two and compare them to the "real real" to judge which is closer.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#144

Post by saiya-jin »

Trasmatta wrote: post #72
Encrust6221 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm doing okay. You are right, it's a very vulnerable and almost inevitable feeling, like I've been shown who I "truly" am inside, something that I only accessed directly during that trip, but which exists below the surface all the time. Which obviously cycles heavily back into the anxious feelings. I've never really put this experience in to words before, reading it back maybe it's time for me to try something other…

God I know exactly what you mean. There's this feeling that surfaces during the trip that's so familiar and so real and you realize it's always there, but hiding under the surface. And now that you've seen it, you can never quite fully ignore it again. > maybe it's time for me to try something other than waiting for it to burn itself out. It hasn't burnt itself out for me either. I don't think it ever will. But thera…

So it basically allowed you to start the process of reconciliation with oneself, finding balance that was never truly there, being able to work with sore spot that was before hidden too well. You probably felt a bit off before but never went digging and accepted it just as part of you.

What a wonderful therapeutic substance, it just doesn't fix everything on its own but requires further work, paving the path for it.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#145

Post by macrolime »

boppo1 wrote: post #123
macrolime wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's been scientific studies on whether people can get "machine elves" to tell them some actual factual information that they didn't already know. In all of the studied cases the things that were told by the "machine elves" was either something that got verified as false/made up or something the user already knew.

I think machine elves a BS but if you're gonna claim they verified it with a study you'd better link it. Idk how they could verify the elves were created by trippers' imaginations, sounds like disproving Jesus.

The conclusion of the study was that the machine elves was simply created by the trippers' imagination as they couldn't get any knowledge out of them. Like they tried asking questions that the users didn't know the answer to to see if they could get the machine elves to tell them. Of course it doesn't really prove that machine elves aren't real either, just that they didn't answer any questions with information that trippers didn't know.

It was something I read many years ago. Didn't find it from a quick search now.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#146

Post by [deleted] »

saiya-jin wrote: post #127
koonsolo wrote: post #120

I always find it surprising that so many people here have such a positive attitude towards drugs. I never touched it, am very happy about it, and hope my kids stay far away from it. I know people who did all kinds of drugs, and nothing positive ever came out of that. Sorry that's just my opinion.

Wow, you must be one of those few in western society that never touched alcohol, never smoked a cigarette and never consumed sugars! Not that its something to marvel at, but for sure you are a curiosity, just like your kids will be in society. On a more serious note, some drugs do much more good than harm. Some psychedelics have extremely good results when treating hard psychiatric patients with conditions our modern…

[deleted]

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#147

Post by hutzlibu »

Drug induced trips are safe the way a mountain trip is safe.

Meaning, if you know the mountain and your skills well and are prepared (or have a good guide leading the way and the preparations), it will likely be a great experience. But not necessarily a "nice" experience and even seasoned climbers have gone missing on a bad day.

So framing any drug trips as safe, like the current hype does way too much, is of course dangerous and missleading.

I do recommend both, though, but you have to be prepared and you have to be in good condition.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#148

Post by boppo1 »

IIAOPSW wrote: post #113
Trasmatta wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Perhaps a normal person would be scared seeing a friends face morph into a demonic figure, but I just find myself asking "why his face and not everyone's face?" and then proceed to systematically look at faces for what feels like hours On some drugs, dosages, and settings, you can lose all concept of what a "face" is. Or even what "is" is. All I knew was pain, suffering, torment, spinning, and eternity.

I'm not denying that its possible to lose all concept of a "face" or even know what "is" is and to only be left with pain, suffering, spinning and eternity. On the contrary, I find it to be an immensely scientifically valuable observation that you lost all concept of a face, didn't know what "is" is and only knew pain, suffering, spinning and eternity. Just knowing that you end up with that experience and other peopl…

This is an example what I dislike about proponents of psychedelics. The condescending tone and appeals to "science" when a scientific method is nowhere to be found.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#149

Post by bheadmaster »

pmoriarty wrote: post #141
bheadmaster wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't seem far fetched to me that your own mind could've manufactured such a reaction - especially if the shamans all tried to convince you that the spirits are real, and you felt "guilty" that you didn't believe them. Your mind could simulate the reaction you'd have feared you'd get if you shared your thoughts with the shamans, perhaps? I am personally very skeptical of the "realness" of anything that happens d…

"I am personally very skeptical of the "realness" of anything that happens during a hallucination." Is it a hallucination, though? That's an open question in the scientific study of these substances and experiences.

> That's an open question in the scientific study of these substances and experiences.

I sincerely doubt that there are scientists questioning whether clockwork elves are real or not.

Hallucinations are considered hallucinations because they are seen only by the person who ingested the hallucinogens, and none of the other people who might be present but didn't ingest the hallucinogens. Consistence is crucial to the very definition of reality - hallucinations are not consistent, therefore they aren't real.

Or that's just the way I see it.

Re: How safe is ayahuasca? Large-scale study explores

#150

Post by probablypower »

xs83 wrote: post #101
DoreenMichele wrote: post #89

As someone who has thrown up a lot over the years and has a love-hate relationship with vomiting -- because sometimes it alleviates some of my symptoms -- I would be interested in hearing more about the experience of vomiting in reaction to taking this and why people apparently seek out the experience of vomiting.

I vomited so hard that I gave myself 2 black eyes and burst a blood vessel in my eye so it went completely red. I literally thought I was going to spew up a kidney. Its called La Purga for a reason though, prior to vomiting, because you are starting to trip, you get into a negative thought spiral, this builds and builds and you feel vile. Then all of a sudden - blam. Kidney coming through your nose level spew.... alo…

You can get the same purging experience and feeling of lightness with a standard colonoscopy prep, which is done with over the counter medication.

You don't get black eyes either.

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