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Pregnancy-Related Deaths: Data from Maternal Mortality Review Committees

cdc.gov

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Re: Pregnancy-Related Deaths: Data from Maternal Mortality Review Committees

#141

Post by nramanand »

bestcoder69 wrote: post #140
nramanand wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I think one could say HSAs are also a symptom of these disproportionate effects. What populations are getting the jobs that provide an HSA? What population has money left over to put into an HSA? etc., etc.

Ya I was just making a little joke about the US's right-wing solutions for distributing healthcare, and "equality of opportunity" arguments people make. IRL some of the poorest people I know have been screwed over by attempting to use similar programs. Myself, I really don't want to have to fucking rebalance my healthcare portfolio. As opposed to, y'know, just walking in the building, getting my healthcare, walking o…

Haha OK I was almost sure this was sarcasm

Re: Pregnancy-Related Deaths: Data from Maternal Mortality Review Committees

#142

Post by xyzzyz »

disabled wrote: post #90
xyzzyz wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine life expectancy in Croatia would be much worse than in US if Croatians were as overweight as Americans are, and used hard drugs or lived on the streets as often. Fortunately, Croatians tend to live much healthier lifestyles than Americans, which results in higher life expectancy, despite available medical care being of worse quality.

Thanks captain obvious, what you stated are public health issues. Also, money isn’t everything and unfortunately a lot of Americans use that as justification to keep playing a game that is going to kill them and/or their family member. Way too much is spent on administration of health care plans and nobody is getting good value for their money. We spend the most, and we get the worst outcomes overall of any developed…

I will only say that I come from one of those Eastern European countries with low per capita medical spend and pretty good health outcomes, and comparing the actual quality of received healthcare, and ignoring the cost differential, I’d pick American hospitals over those in the country I grew up in every single time, no exceptions.

Re: Pregnancy-Related Deaths: Data from Maternal Mortality Review Committees

#143

Post by frob »

dane-pgp wrote: post #35
malfist wrote: post #2

Maternity healthcare in the US is one of the worst in the developed nations. And yet we're banning abortion, and doing nothing to fix it. Even WIC has came under attack in the past. Protecting the unborn is very convenient. They make no demands of you. Edit: WIC: Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC) https://www.fns.usda.gov/wic

I completely agree with you, except I think the middle line of your comment is needlessly snide. One could equally say: "Protecting unborn (and newly born) humans is very inconvenient. They make all sorts of demands of you. (So maybe we should deny their humanity.)" The real questions are "At what point does human life begin / become valuable?" and "Should governments provide for their citizens or merely punish those…

I believe it is an allusion to a speech by the Methodist pastor David Barnhart:

"The unborn” are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus, but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn.

Re: Pregnancy-Related Deaths: Data from Maternal Mortality Review Committees

#144

Post by anon291 »

nxm wrote: post #37
neves wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA is the richest country of the world and does not have paid maternity leave. It is very weird and my hypothesis is that this fact relates to these mental health conditions.

At a federal level no, but some states do require many weeks at minimum. I also think 9months is beyond excessive for maternity/paternity leave (father of kids here).

Unpopular opinion: paternity leave doesn't need to be multiple months long in the vast majority of situations. Maternity leave is different of course. Six weeks is luxuriously long for the most common situation. Perhaps on your first child you should get a bit more.

Nine months is excessive for paternity leave. I can't comment to maternity leave, but it would make more sense there.

Long paternity leave drives everyone crazy.

Re: Pregnancy-Related Deaths: Data from Maternal Mortality Review Committees

#145

Post by j_walter »

kube-system wrote: post #84
j_walter wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My mother was a doctor that spent a great deal of time with expectant mothers. Based on her limited but also extensive experience on the subject drug use by the mother caused a significant portion of the mortality in unborn fetuses. This was particularly seen higher in the minority population (Black, Native American, etc.) and she is frustrated when she sees all the statistics that racism is the only reason behind th…

Addiction is a treatable and preventable condition, but addiction is not a choice. These are overwhelmingly not bad people who want to harm their unborn child, they simply do not have the required mental state to choose otherwise.

Some addiction is treatable and preventable. Sometimes your brain has been changed beyond a point of return though.

Re: Pregnancy-Related Deaths: Data from Maternal Mortality Review Committees

#146

Post by mikeyouse »

logicalmonster wrote: post #137
spookthesunset wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then suddenly the entire globe started to test everybody with a pulse for Covid, symptomatic or not. Society has never had that kind of real-time data for tracking a virus. We have zero reference to compare Covid to because nothing has ever been tested quite the same. Thus there is no real way to compare the flu to Covid or even previous pandemics like Zika, SARS, etc…

> And then suddenly the entire globe started to test everybody with a pulse for Covid, This is one of the big reasons that I total distrust and reject the provided mortality statistics with Covid. Statistical comparisons have to be made in similar ways or they're worthless.

All cause mortality / total excess death statistics solve most of these issues and was remarkably higher during Covid...

https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/dataviz8737/viz/COVID...

Re: Pregnancy-Related Deaths: Data from Maternal Mortality Review Committees

#147

Post by maerF0x0 »

ghufran_syed wrote: post #125
maerF0x0 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do still see those causes of death as preventable, just the prevention like starts many orders before the mother. Things like social safety nets which prevent crime and homicide, effective drug addiction treatment, and more generally giving people some hope instead of the endless negativity and nihilism that has been spread for at least six years now.

Well, the united kingdom has a much more elaborate and complete "social safety net" and yet their maternal mortality report has similar conclusions to ours. The question is always what else are we willing to give up in order to pay for that? Would you be willing to have a 10% lower effective income to save a million lives every year in the US? What about to save just 1 life? Or what if you had to have a 50% lower inc…

> What about to save just 1 life?

I actually think this ought to be a root standard that the government sets. Then every industry will have a baseline by which they are strictly required to care (and at risk monetarily if they're negligent) .

eg: $1M per life expectancy year remaining.

Re: Pregnancy-Related Deaths: Data from Maternal Mortality Review Committees

#148

Post by pchristensen »

pitaj wrote: post #133
arcticbull wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also a reminder that at least a few years ago, the US had the highest maternal mortality rate in the entire OECD against a standardized metric. Like, by a country mile. [1] > Among 11 developed countries, the United States has the highest maternal mortality rate, a relative undersupply of maternity care providers, and is the only country not to guarantee access to provider home visits or paid parental leave in the po…

> by a country mile. For reference (so someone doesn't have to click through): 17.4 per 100,000 vs the two closest: France at 8.7 and Canada at 8.6 Does that account for the far higher proportion of people living in rural areas in the US? What about obesity, ethnicity, etc?

The USA has about 20-30% of the population that's structurally poor, an artifact of slavery and oppression, but also the wider variety of governmental structures, economic concentrations, and cultures in different states and regions. This shows up in incomes, health statistics, crime, life expectancy, educational outcomes, etc. Probably the most drastic is the difference between coastal California (the richest region in the country) and rural California (would be the poorest state) - see this for more details - https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/why-is-the-central-val....

Every place has its economically disadvantaged, but America's poor seem to be more neglected and left behind than in other countries. A lot of other rich countries have better aggregate numbers because they bottom quartile is not as low.

Re: Pregnancy-Related Deaths: Data from Maternal Mortality Review Committees

#149

Post by ClumsyPilot »

spookthesunset wrote: post #110
logicalmonster wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems like we should track cause of death so we can have richer and more actionable information. I hope I'm remembering this right, and please correct me if my memory or interpretation of this isn't correct. When Covid first emerged and people were diving deeply into all kinds of mortality statistics, one story I saw that was kind of shocking is that there's been no genuine system for counting flu deaths in a no…

And then suddenly the entire globe started to test everybody with a pulse for Covid, symptomatic or not. Society has never had that kind of real-time data for tracking a virus. We have zero reference to compare Covid to because nothing has ever been tested quite the same. Thus there is no real way to compare the flu to Covid or even previous pandemics like Zika, SARS, etc…

it is possible previous viruses killed many more people than we think they did.

Youve got to start tracking at some point, covid was that point

Re: Pregnancy-Related Deaths: Data from Maternal Mortality Review Committees

#150

Post by anon291 »

watwut wrote: post #91
bedhead wrote: post #72

I remember years ago when I was studying various aspects of the health insurance market, there was one thing that really, truly alarmed me: the amount of Medicaid money spent on pregnancy-related care. It was shocking to me. Pregnant women who don't see their doctors regularly end up costing the system an absolute fortune. It is a sad plague among many of the poor who have lots of problems themselves, a big one being…

Pregnancy and generally anything to do with doctors in USA are super expensive.

Except this happens even when care is free.

My wife ended up in L&D triage a lot due to high blood pressure. Every single time a woman would walk in, purportedly in labor, without any prenatal care. This was in California, where pre-natal care for those who cannot afford it is... free.

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