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Pregnancy-Related Deaths: Data from Maternal Mortality Review Committees

cdc.gov

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Re: Pregnancy-Related Deaths: Data from Maternal Mortality Review Committees

#101

Post by ssully »

Dma54rhs wrote: post #55
malfist wrote: post #2

Maternity healthcare in the US is one of the worst in the developed nations. And yet we're banning abortion, and doing nothing to fix it. Even WIC has came under attack in the past. Protecting the unborn is very convenient. They make no demands of you. Edit: WIC: Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC) https://www.fns.usda.gov/wic

Its difficult to find countries with so liberal abortion laws as in America. As an European it amazes me that so many people think abortion at late stages is "Business as usual".

I’ve never encountered someone who is pro-abortion that believes a late stage abortion is “business as usual”. It’s usually considered a tragedy because rarely does a mother get that late in a pregnancy and want an abortion. They get them because something terrible has gone wrong.

Re: Pregnancy-Related Deaths: Data from Maternal Mortality Review Committees

#102

Post by dahfizz »

kevingadd wrote: post #86
mattmcknight wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, mental health conditions and cardiomyopathy are "preventable"? Their definition of Preventability stretches credibility- lowering the risk is different from preventing something. "A death is considered preventable if the committee determines that there was at least some chance of the death being averted by one or more reasonable changes to patient, community, provider, facility, and/or systems factors."

You can prevent some mental health conditions by caring properly for the mother, for example a mother struggling to pay rent or unable to access necessary medical care is naturally going to be at higher risk of conditions like depression and if you improve her circumstances it's possible that the depression might at least abate for a while. Lots of people who are managing mental health conditions will spiral if their…

> You can prevent some mental health conditions by caring properly for the mother,

By that definition, cancer is preventable. Actually, nearly every possible cause of death is preventable if you're definition is "doing something might reduce risk factors".

That's not the normal usage of "preventable death".

Re: Pregnancy-Related Deaths: Data from Maternal Mortality Review Committees

#103

Post by watwut »

Dma54rhs wrote: post #55
malfist wrote: post #2

Maternity healthcare in the US is one of the worst in the developed nations. And yet we're banning abortion, and doing nothing to fix it. Even WIC has came under attack in the past. Protecting the unborn is very convenient. They make no demands of you. Edit: WIC: Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC) https://www.fns.usda.gov/wic

Its difficult to find countries with so liberal abortion laws as in America. As an European it amazes me that so many people think abortion at late stages is "Business as usual".

I mean, this is a lie. Both in terms of late stage abortion being "business as usual" in USA and in terms of late stage abortion not being done in Europe.

Laws vary between countries, but basically Poland is not Europe. Generally you can get late stage abortion for variety for health issues (abd even social ones). Also, you won't be denied prescribed medicine you need for pregnancy unrelated condition just because you are woman and it might also end pregnancy.

Also, there is no ban on talking about abortion.

Re: Pregnancy-Related Deaths: Data from Maternal Mortality Review Committees

#104

Post by StormChaser_5 »

csdvrx wrote: post #65
StormChaser_5 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure where you ate getting that comparison. 2 mins on Google tells me [1] that ireland for example has a ppp per capita gdp of 79k vs USA average of 63k. Which would seem to imply that the first country in EU I compared with is significantly higher than at least some of us states? And that isn't a recent development. The choice isn't about getting massively poorer, it's just whether you want to be able to look yo…

Average hides things. Talk about medians AND averages: the former doesn't change if Jeff Bezos enter the room. The later will. Also talk about ajusted PPP, to account for higher or lower local costs (and accounting shenanigans like double irish with dutch sandwich) When not cheating, US is #2, only behind Luxembourg, even if my local observations do not support this conclusion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_in…

So you are comparing the income you get in a country in the EU after taxes that for the most part will pay for healthcare, education, etc and comparing them to the US median income which famously doesn't.

Apparently healthcare in the US is something like $10k per person per year? Seems fair to take that from the US median income so we are comparing apples with apples. Looking at your wikipedia link that would put the US down around 11th... After Belgium, Norway, Austria, etc and that is before we start talking about education.

Look - your point that people in USA have more money is mostly true. But when you add in the extras you have to pay for the difference is not as big as you might think. And none of that explains why pregnancy related deaths are so comparatively high.

Re: Pregnancy-Related Deaths: Data from Maternal Mortality Review Committees

#105

Post by chernevik »

From the article:

> A death is considered preventable if the committee determines that there was at least some chance of the death being averted by one or more reasonable changes to patient, community, provider, facility, and/or systems factors.

This isn't science or even data, it's the opinion of some reviewing doctors.

Re: Pregnancy-Related Deaths: Data from Maternal Mortality Review Committees

#106

Post by arcticbull »

simonsarris wrote: post #21

Reminder when comparing with other nations that as this study states: "Pregnancy-related deaths occurred during pregnancy, delivery, and up to a year postpartum. " The measure can be very different elsewhere. The WHO defines a maternal death as "the death of a woman while pregnant or within 42 days of termination of pregnancy , irrespective of the duration and the site of the pregnancy, from any cause related to or a…

Also a reminder that at least a few years ago, the US had the highest maternal mortality rate in the entire OECD against a standardized metric. Like, by a country mile. [1]

> Among 11 developed countries, the United States has the highest maternal mortality rate, a relative undersupply of maternity care providers, and is the only country not to guarantee access to provider home visits or paid parental leave in the postpartum period.

> Women in the U.S. are the most likely to die from complications related to pregnancy or childbirth.

[edit] NPR did a thing on it in 2017 too. [2] In 2015 you were 7X as likely to die as a mother in the US as compared to Finland (and 4X Canada) - and while the rest of the world saw dropping numbers, the US saw accelerating increases. And for every woman who dies in childbirth in the US 70 come close.

[1] https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2...

[2] https://www.npr.org/series/543928389/lost-mothers

Re: Pregnancy-Related Deaths: Data from Maternal Mortality Review Committees

#107

Post by vkou »

pstuart wrote: post #36
dfxm12 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just banning abortion, but any medicine that could maybe possibly be used as an abortifacient, even if it is normally prescribed medicine for something else. Some women suffering from arthritis can't get methotrexate for example.

Not just that, but planning to make contraception illegal. Probably sex-ed too.

You're being downvoted because there is no way in hell that the Republican party will push for restrictions on contraception.

After all, both their politicians and their court nominees insisted that abortion is a long-settled issue, and have not reneged on it the second they had the power to - we can trust them to continue operating in good faith, and in a matter that respects public opinion.

Re: Pregnancy-Related Deaths: Data from Maternal Mortality Review Committees

#108

Post by notch656a »

coldpie wrote: post #50
notch656a wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WIC is way overcomplicated for what it is. Just cut a check for the value of the goods you want to provide and be done with it. No excuse for the insane bloat and overhead associated with WIC.

This is generally what advocates for these kinds of programs ask for. The bloat and overhead gets added by welfare opponents under the justification of "preventing abuse."

That's a bizarre take, although perhaps it is true. That WIC system is bloated and cost more because welfare opponents want it to be bloated? Is that anything more than a talking point -- I mean is there real evidence that anti-welfare people are voting in meaningful way to make the WIC program cost more?

Personally I am against violence imposed welfare (taxation based). But I see cash remuneration as a win-win because we could say give $0.50 more out in welfare for every $1.00 of overhead eliminated, and both recipients and the taxpayers would be better off.

Re: Pregnancy-Related Deaths: Data from Maternal Mortality Review Committees

#109

Post by LorenPechtel »

mattmcknight wrote: post #64
simonsarris wrote: post #21

Reminder when comparing with other nations that as this study states: "Pregnancy-related deaths occurred during pregnancy, delivery, and up to a year postpartum. " The measure can be very different elsewhere. The WHO defines a maternal death as "the death of a woman while pregnant or within 42 days of termination of pregnancy , irrespective of the duration and the site of the pregnancy, from any cause related to or a…

Also, mental health conditions and cardiomyopathy are "preventable"? Their definition of Preventability stretches credibility- lowering the risk is different from preventing something. "A death is considered preventable if the committee determines that there was at least some chance of the death being averted by one or more reasonable changes to patient, community, provider, facility, and/or systems factors."

I stopped reading at this point--they're not counting preventable, they're counting cases where something *might* have been able to be done. That doesn't mean success and it means their 80% figure is an attempt to make the data fit what they want, not legitimate research.

Re: Pregnancy-Related Deaths: Data from Maternal Mortality Review Committees

#110

Post by spookthesunset »

logicalmonster wrote: post #100
echelon wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> dies 8 days later due to complications But 365 days? That's sounds like it's mental health related. It seems like we should track cause of death so we can have richer and more actionable information. Edit: I didn't mean to imply that this wasn't postpartum depression. I was curious if/why other nations aren't tracking the full calendar year after birth, and if our way of counting prevents us from directly comparing…

> It seems like we should track cause of death so we can have richer and more actionable information. I hope I'm remembering this right, and please correct me if my memory or interpretation of this isn't correct. When Covid first emerged and people were diving deeply into all kinds of mortality statistics, one story I saw that was kind of shocking is that there's been no genuine system for counting flu deaths in a no…

And then suddenly the entire globe started to test everybody with a pulse for Covid, symptomatic or not. Society has never had that kind of real-time data for tracking a virus. We have zero reference to compare Covid to because nothing has ever been tested quite the same. Thus there is no real way to compare the flu to Covid or even previous pandemics like Zika, SARS, etc…
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