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D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

washingtonian.com

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Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#141

Post by ZeroGravitas »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #35
teddyh wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people think that a dictatorship is OK as long as the trains all run on time. The right way to solve the problem is not to harden the gatekeeping, but to improve society so that gatekeeping becomes unnecessary. But that’s hard, and has no obvious point where someone can extract money.

>"but to improve society so that gatekeeping becomes unnecessary." I understand the sentiment but I ultimately find such a stance unhelpful and counterproductive because it is essentially saying the problems we face would go away if we only just created a utopia. Like, what's stopping us? Trying to create better public restrooms with a new system seems far more achievable than implementing a new socioeconomic system…

It doesn't need to be a utopia.

Apartheid regimes or extreme poverty lead to gated compounds for the rich with depressing predictability.

Toilets that exclude the poor are great for ensuring the rich have access to nice private toilets. Doesn't help those who can't afford the subscription fee.

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#142

Post by krisoft »

DubiousPusher wrote: post #127
derefr wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more commonplace and universal something is, the less of a big deal people will feel it is to deal with. And vice versa. The very fact that we don’t all live in filth now, means that you have to pay a high premium to get someone to choose to be the person whose job constantly exposes them to it. See also: the profitability of electronics recycling (i.e. picking through piles of scrap for base metal to melt) in th…

My job for a long time involved digging up people's septic tanks and fixing them. I know other people who pump them for a living. I know others who buy the waste and dry it. And people of all stripes buy it after it's treated and mixed with mulch and put it on their lawn. This problem is much more minor than you think. Lots of us are not afraid of poop.

Cool. So we have these 3 public bathrooms around the city. How much do you charge to keep them clean and what is your SLA?

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#143

Post by Kaibeezy »

xyzzyz wrote: post #27
RHSeeger wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my point of view, it's not about being "yucky", it's about ruining it for others. If a bathroom is provided, and you convert it to a state that it cannot reasonably be used by others, then you don't get to use the next one. If free food is provided for people and you come in and take it all to sell it elsewhere, then you don't get to partake anymore. There is no way to provide things in a way that people cannot…

In fact, denying the courtesies and benefits to norm breakers is exactly how you improve society. That’s like raising a child: you won’t convince a toddler with a reasoned argument about empathy, the value of preserving shared norms, and the benefits of delayed gratification. Instead, you tell them that if they misbehave, they don’t get to watch TV. Bums respond to incentives too.

This is basically the premise of the oddly compelling 2019 Spanish sci-fi/horror film, The Platform. Prisoners alternately experience privilege and deprivation, and it either makes them animals or socialists. Lots of food for thought, as it were.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Platform_(film)

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#144

Post by technion »

devinj wrote: post #118
technion wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you could explain to an Australian here: I have either a pub or a McDonalds every two blocks that any person can walk into and use a restroom. This would include industrial areas. Is that not the case in Seattle?

Surprisingly, yes, there's really not a lot of McDonald's or other chain fast food restaurants downtown. You can try exploring in Google maps to get a feel for it (consider eg the area around Mercer and Dexter Ave). You can get to one, but it may be a half hour detour on foot. What is closer will be awkward as they describe.

Thanks for that. I have to agree to being surprised. I've just looked on maps from my last Sydney office, for some comparison: There's a McDonalds at 377 George St and at 600 George St, both about a four minute walk. There's a third inside the Westfield which would have its own bathrooms. KFC is three minutes away with bathrooms.

The Marble Bar is a 3m walk, Century Bar is 5m, Ryan's Bar is 9m, Burrow Bar is 5m, and Papa Gede's is 3m. All of this excludes the mass of pubs and clubs that shutdown due to lockout. I definitely feel out of place with what you've shown me!

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#145

Post by withinboredom »

krisoft wrote: post #142
DubiousPusher wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My job for a long time involved digging up people's septic tanks and fixing them. I know other people who pump them for a living. I know others who buy the waste and dry it. And people of all stripes buy it after it's treated and mixed with mulch and put it on their lawn. This problem is much more minor than you think. Lots of us are not afraid of poop.

Cool. So we have these 3 public bathrooms around the city. How much do you charge to keep them clean and what is your SLA?

They charge ~€0.70 to use the public restrooms around here. They are always clean.

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#146

Post by dtonon »

imgabe wrote: post #37

I don't know why cities don't offer a tax break to businesses to make their bathrooms publicly available. Make it enough that they can hire an extra employee to make sure there's someone to check the bathroom periodically and do some random checks to make sure businesses aren't cheating. It would have to be cheaper than operating separate public bathrooms. I live in Hong Kong and am still a little amazed at the ubiqu…

> or trying to find a coffee shop that will let you use its restroom

In Italy all the public business like coffee shops ("bars") have to let free access to the toilet by law, even if you don't buy anything.

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#148

Post by imgabe »

hugh-avherald wrote: post #117
imgabe wrote: post #37

I don't know why cities don't offer a tax break to businesses to make their bathrooms publicly available. Make it enough that they can hire an extra employee to make sure there's someone to check the bathroom periodically and do some random checks to make sure businesses aren't cheating. It would have to be cheaper than operating separate public bathrooms. I live in Hong Kong and am still a little amazed at the ubiqu…

Why is a tax break the mechanism you suggest?

Because it's a service the business is performing for the public and they should be compensated for it. It also makes it easier to opt out and reduces the regulatory burden, which benefits small business.

McDonald's and Starbucks etc. will have no problem figuring out how to qualify for the tax break and jump through the hoops to get it. Then the city gets hundreds of new public bathrooms that they don't have to maintain for minimal cost.

A small mom and pop bodega or flower shop or whatever that barely makes a profit might decide it's not worth it. If it's a requirement, that business just ceases to exist and the city is deprived of it. If it's optional, they can still operate, and the city doesn't end up a homogeneous wasteland of corporate brands. They just don't get a tax break, but if they're not making much money, they probably aren't paying much tax anyway.

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#149

Post by withinboredom »

hackerlight wrote: post #116
idontwantthis wrote: post #12

JFC can I not take a shit without someone tracking me? Hey American cities! Charge $1 to use a toilet like they do in Europe.

That would exclude the worst offenders. But it doesn't solve the incentive problem of tragedy of the commons. Once people have paid $1, that's immediately a sunk cost, and from then people have no reason (aside from morals, which are absent in some people) not to shit on the toilet seat and walk out. But it still may be an alright solution (when combined with regular cleaners), even if it isn't a perfect one.

Here, you get a voucher that you can use to get your money back and can use it in the business the bathroom is located in, or in one of the nearby businesses.

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#150

Post by Kaibeezy »

sigstoat wrote: post #88
DubiousPusher wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not worrying about it and accepting that sometimes life is gross?

poor sanitation is a public health risk, not merely “gross”ness. i’ve seen some public bathrooms are so mistreated that i don’t know how you pay anyone to clean them. i’d certainly feel awful asking a janitor to clean them without a hazmat suit, a pressure washer and a bag full of tergazyme.

Is it a business model? How much would I have to pay to use a restroom that’s been kept spotless by a well-paid, well-protected maintainer? What would it take to prevent the worst abuses and misuse by paying patrons (flinging, smoking, assignations, camping out, etc.)?

If the problem of where everyone can go is hard, why not at least try to solve the problem of where people willing to pay a lot can go? Lots of empty storefronts in downtown SF right now. $5 or even $10 a go could be cheaper and quicker than buying something I didn’t really want in some restaurant just so I can use their restroom.

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