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D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

washingtonian.com

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Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#101

Post by eurasiantiger »

xyzzyz wrote: post #25
teddyh wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people think that a dictatorship is OK as long as the trains all run on time. The right way to solve the problem is not to harden the gatekeeping, but to improve society so that gatekeeping becomes unnecessary. But that’s hard, and has no obvious point where someone can extract money.

The time tested way of improving society is widespread shaming and bottom up enforcement of norms. We don’t do that anymore, lest the liberties of the norm breakers are lost, and their feelings injured.

So… fascism?

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#102

Post by Dalewyn »

ravel-bar-foo wrote: post #23
teddyh wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people think that a dictatorship is OK as long as the trains all run on time. The right way to solve the problem is not to harden the gatekeeping, but to improve society so that gatekeeping becomes unnecessary. But that’s hard, and has no obvious point where someone can extract money.

What are the options to "improve society" so people don't make a mess in shared bathrooms? PSAs? Public shaming? Collateral put down to use bathrooms? Do you have any better and specific ideas? I can't think of much more gentle and more likely to motivate people to change behavior than a public accountability system, although it is regrettable that it must be run through a for-profit entity and look like a social cre…

>What are the options to "improve society" so people don't make a mess in shared bathrooms?

300% public shaming. Japan is an example of this working, to an unbelievably ideal extent even.

Public restrooms in Japan are *clean*, they are spotless and sanitary no matter what time of day you visit one. You can probably eat off of those toilet seats, for all I know.

The reason for this is because individuals who do not clean up after themselves in public spaces are shamed and ridiculed by Japanese society at large with no holds barred. It's "just not how upstanding members of society operate" to make a mess, be it in a public restroom or anywhere else, in Japan.

You might see Japanese people picking up trash and cleaning up after themselves when leaving a public venue like a stadium or theater, probably other peoples' refuse too while they are at it. Frankly bewildering acts from the perspective of most westerners, but it's literally that sort of social attitude to be upstanding individuals that leads to clean public restrooms.

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#103

Post by freeone3000 »

borski wrote: post #95
mxwsn wrote: post #4

From listening to a podcast or two, my impression is that the Public Bathroom Problem is an economic one. There were many paid public bathrooms in the past in the US, but they were deemed sexist and banned. Then cities didn't want to foot the bill, so they closed many of them. What's this startups' business model?

What I’m really interested in is why they were deemed sexist; in Europe, which I just came back from visiting, paid toilets were everywhere and they were not usually particularly clean.

A fee was charged for stall use, but not for urinal use.

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#104

Post by technion »

timuralp wrote: post #39
eyelidlessness wrote: post #14

> QR code Um, solve the public restrooms problem for whom? Granted I’ve been living far from DC for 20 years, but I spent a large chunk of this summer there. Access to public restrooms was the same as it is here in Seattle: only a problem if you’re a street critter. People who can scan QR codes already have plenty of access to restrooms, they just need to at least suggest they’ll buy something. Homeless people and pe…

As a Seattle dweller and an active person, finding a bathroom during a long run or a bike ride is difficult. There are large swaths of the city with no bathrooms. In commercial areas, having to meander through a store to use a restroom is bad for the person trying to use it and the other store customers. Seattle is failing in this regard for all its citizens, not just "street critters". Agreed that everyone should ha…

If you could explain to an Australian here: I have either a pub or a McDonalds every two blocks that any person can walk into and use a restroom. This would include industrial areas. Is that not the case in Seattle?

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#105

Post by kyleee »

idontwantthis wrote: post #12

JFC can I not take a shit without someone tracking me? Hey American cities! Charge $1 to use a toilet like they do in Europe.

it's free to use but anonymized footage of the deed will be sold to our list of 96 advertising partners. If you'd like to opt-out please contact our partners individually

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#106

Post by borski »

freeone3000 wrote: post #103
borski wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I’m really interested in is why they were deemed sexist; in Europe, which I just came back from visiting, paid toilets were everywhere and they were not usually particularly clean.

A fee was charged for stall use, but not for urinal use.

…oh. So can we just charge for both?

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#107

Post by kyleee »

vsskanth wrote: post #40

I spent a lot of time traveling in Europe and the public toilets were top notch and clean. The big difference ? I usually had to pay a nominal amount - 1 euro, to use it. Totally worth it IMO. Although I found it odd they sometimes had a person with a white lab coat outside. Why the lab coat ?

they're there to collect your specimen?

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#108

Post by deltasevennine »

teddyh wrote: post #11
MonkeyMalarky wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously though, accountability is the missing thing. If getting banned for consistently making a mess is what it takes to get public bathrooms back, then so be it. There's no excuse for the shit I've seen. I'm tired of being denied amenities because of other peoples' degenerate behaviour.

Some people think that a dictatorship is OK as long as the trains all run on time. The right way to solve the problem is not to harden the gatekeeping, but to improve society so that gatekeeping becomes unnecessary. But that’s hard, and has no obvious point where someone can extract money.

>Some people think that a dictatorship is OK as long as the trains all run on time.

Some people are influenced by propaganda and the historical connotations associated with the word "dictatorship."

There's nothing inherently bad about the word, it's just the association. If you look at dictatorships objectively there are many successful examples. Here are a few modern ones: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictatorship

That's just a couple. Your first reaction would be to say that the examples represent a minority. The problem is, though, if you look at ancient history, the most successful civilizations that prospered and succeeded were basically all empires with central rule. It shows that if you were intellectually unbiased, you would not simply dismiss "dictatorship" in a single sentence.

Democracy is a recent phenomenon when viewed in terms of human history and, if anything, still experimental (there are many examples of complete failures of democratic governments).

That being said, to swing it around to your statement. There is no definitive "right" way to solve a problem. Gatekeeping could work, and it could fail. Simply "improving society" can also lead to complete and utter failure. The inputs and various factors influencing the outcomes are so complex we cannot point to one way that works.

So I say give gatekeeping a try. It's not like the government is doing this either... It's a business.

Re: D.C.-area startup wants to solve the public bathroom problem

#110

Post by DubiousPusher »

borski wrote: post #93
DubiousPusher wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then let's start with that.

That costs a lot more money.

More tham paying cops tp arrest people and jailers to jail them?

More than the $500,000 the Downtown Seattle Association spent last year alone on hosing out one alley?

I have my doubts. However, were it the case I'd still say it is the right thing to do. Jury trials cost a lot of money, death penalty appeals are whoppingly expensive, eminent domain is costing Sound Transit a fortune for its light rail network. As it turns out, living in a free society is expensive.

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