And much of this is to convince governments to not go open source. This kind of behavior is part of Microsoft's DNA.
Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes
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Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes
#142Former Microsoftie here. After all the business ethics training videos I had to sit through, I am infuriated by this.
Those trainings are just ass coverings for when the company goes to court.
AFAIK the trainings are part of a settlement with the government after the company goes to court.
Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
Same in India. In fact, public officials are paid very little with the expectation that they will supplement their income with bribes. It's just absolutely normal to get literally anything done with a government office in almost any non-western country.
Yup, it is mindbogglingly unimaginable to people who spent their whole lives living in the west, but as someone who moved out of Russia over a decade ago, it is the exact same thing there. Extremely normalized in every single aspect. Applying for a passport? Well, you can do it normally, wait 9-12 months, hope papers don't get lost in the process (again), and maybe eventually you will be able to get it after a 2nd or…
12 months, in India now getting a passport take 1-4 weeks with no bribe involved.
Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes
#144Western countries look the other way when their companies exploit poor countries. Then let the same corrupt money to be be taken out from those poor countries and hidden in their banks and property markets. Microsoft is not alone in this many other companies do the same. I personally feel the biggest hate from the west for the chinese so called road and belt initiative is not that China is exploiting these countries…
Well there is a geopolitical perspective to this as well right? Wouldn't want our biggest adversary to have strategic influence over these nations. Not to mention the potential intelligence capabilities from installing our equipment rather than theirs. Whether one country is more righteous than the other doesn't matter at this point - you should be rooting for the country that your survival depends on.
at least you're honest, most people don't get this far. but doesn't make your stance moral, I cannot justify keeping poor countries poor because of petty concerns like "we must remain #1"
Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
Now if only people in the west would apply this same logic to their own communities. Whole Foods isn't donating money to the private school that the children of some local politician to attend because of their belief in the school's mission. They're doing it because they want to redevelop a strip mall and a new soccer field costs less than anything that involves a courtroom.
I know you are trying to make an example of bribes, politicians, and private schooling, but honestly Whole Foods donating funds for a new playing field for a school and also redeveloping a strip mall instead of paying a bunch of attorneys to occupy space in a public courtroom sounds like... a win win win?
I don't necessarily disagree but I'm not 100% sold on the high wealth floor that's required to access western corruption being a good thing.
Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes
#146Former Microsoftie here. After all the business ethics training videos I had to sit through, I am infuriated by this.
My thoughts exactly. Every year, the Standards of Business Conduct training talks about not bribing foreign officials and devs are like “who the hell is ever in that position anyway?”.
If it helps, I had to sit through all that stuff at Amazon as well. I was in the bit that makes consumer electronics and never dealt with contracts in any way, yet still had to spend time learning not to make or take bribes from wholesalers or international businesses or governments. Every. Single. Year.
Initially the training software was badly written so you could just open up DevTools and type "v = document.querySelector('video'); v.currentTime = v.duration - 1000;" or similar and just bop through the sections. Later they seemed to track time on the server, so really the most I could do is turn off the window focus check and leave the tab open in a second monitor. So annoying.
Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
You say that but that’s basically what happened with US v. Microsoft and they never moved onto the next. Apple is doing far worse with Safari on iOS and the DOJ refuses to apply the same standard. This seems like reverse rule of “if you’re going to bring food, you have to bring enough for the whole class”.
Microsoft refused to pay lobbyist, now they do. AFAIK Apple never made that mistake.
No, Apple has a tiny lobbying operation and does not do corporate PAC contributions at all.
The real explanation is that Apple makes computers so they can legally control software however they want. When Microsoft got in trouble in the 1990s, they did not make computers, they were only a supplier. So they got in trouble for interfering with other suppliers. This is one reason Microsoft now makes and sells computers directly to consumers.
Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are the bribes being directed by MS US or are these things taking place in overseas offices where customs are different? One example was Hungary --I imagine Ukraine and Nigeria too would have executives there who are part of the local culture where they do things differently. While the actions go afoul of US law, they may be in line with local customs culture and practices --that is harder to root out as now you are…
I live in Kazakhstan and while I don't have any evidence, I'm pretty sure that many huge western companies operating here bribed officials. I don't think that's necessary part of local culture. Of course in poor country officials with $200/month salary are happy to get $1000 gift for signing $100 000 agreement. Western companies are huge part of corruption source here. That's my opinion. I've heard that Ikea decided…
The irony is the bribes are, of course, a requirement to operate in the US as a large corporation, but here they’re laundered as “lobbying” and “campaign donations.”
Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes
#149Former Microsoftie here. After all the business ethics training videos I had to sit through, I am infuriated by this.
In the banks we have the same. As IT guy, the amount of quarterly trainings and their focus is a bit crazy, most topics I will never ever touch since I don't work in ie Legal and I am so far from ever interacting or even seeing any client.
Most of the trainings are about a fine we got due to being caught doing something bad, say 10 years ago, and part of legal settlement is apart from direct fine, a nice 30-60 min training where they tell you that stealing and lying and cheating is bad.
Those trainings keep re-appearing quite consistently so they are really not that effective.
Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
Same in India. In fact, public officials are paid very little with the expectation that they will supplement their income with bribes. It's just absolutely normal to get literally anything done with a government office in almost any non-western country.
> public officials are paid very little with the expectation that they will supplement their income with bribes. I'd like to offer my own perspective on this issue, having spent a lot of time in the third-world, that may not be obvious to many of us in the western world or from more developed economies. Many countries that are struggling with i.e. building robust transportation and energy infrastructure, are also str…
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