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Libor, long the most important number in finance, dies at 52

nytimes.com

141–150 of 184 posts

Re: Libor, long the most important number in finance, dies at 52

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Corruption Index is similar - it’s based on how corrupt people think a nation is. Nothing to do with how much actual corruption exists.

It seems overwhelmingly likely that "how corrupt people think a nation is" does have "[something] to do with how much actual corruption exists".

[deleted]

Re: Libor, long the most important number in finance, dies at 52

#142
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ummm the whole point is that it is a measure of relatively unregulated dollar for dollar transactions not subject to any clearinghouse, exchange, or blockchain regulation or visibility. LIBOR is supposed to be the benchmark of dollars anywhere, so to speak. So you're talking about apples and oranges

Well, you do with what you have (and the prices of apples may be correlated enough with the price of oranges to act as a proxy if you can't get the price of oranges), and the pros of "resilient to rigging" might be worth more than the cons.

I agree with that. More information and less rigging is a more efficient market, which is a win-win for nearly everyone.

Maybe the big players could agree to record a decent portion of the transactions transparently across a clearinghouse or blockchain that would be audited manually or cryptographically. Then you have real-time approximation of rates.

Re: Libor, long the most important number in finance, dies at 52

#143
post #113

The salient info buried at the end: "Libor is survived by several successors, each making a claim to its crown. The Secured Overnight Financing Rate, or SOFR — a rate produced by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York that is based on transaction data, not estimates — has already been embraced by many banks in the United States and has the endorsement of the Fed. Others, like the American Interbank Offered Rate, or Ame…

For any new lending the contracts get replaced with new ones referencing Sonia. Even existing debt facilities that get drawn down - the banks don’t want more lending under libor.

It’s a pretty painless substitution though

Re: Libor, long the most important number in finance, dies at 52

#144
post #113

The salient info buried at the end: "Libor is survived by several successors, each making a claim to its crown. The Secured Overnight Financing Rate, or SOFR — a rate produced by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York that is based on transaction data, not estimates — has already been embraced by many banks in the United States and has the endorsement of the Fed. Others, like the American Interbank Offered Rate, or Ame…

> how does this impact existing contracts?

This has kept lawyers busy for past the few years. The "LIBOR fallback language" was created and then inserted into existing contracts, to address this question. It's like a pull request for a patch. Most of the legacy contracts out there have been "patched" with the "fallback language" at this point, and as of Jan 1, 2022, no new LIBOR contracts are allowed.

Re: Libor, long the most important number in finance, dies at 52

#145
post #6

I have an adjustable rate mortgage based on LIBOR and the lender still has not said what they plan to do. The presumed replacement rate (SOFR) seems to be pegged near 0% which would be good.

Note that when SOFR starts to fluctuate, you wont know your actual interest payment before the end of each payment period, since these rates are applied on a daily basis, in arrears.

CME Term SOFR contracts exist to address this. 1M, 3M, 6M, and 1Y Term SOFR rates are published [1]. A typical 3M LIBOR contract can just substitute it with 3M SOFR without impacting the basic mechanisms, like knowing in advance how much interest you will owe over the next period.

[1] https://www.cmegroup.com/market-data/cme-group-benchmark-adm...

Re: Libor, long the most important number in finance, dies at 52

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

legally the new definition of 3 month Libor is sofr + 26.161bps

I know they will use a fallback spread to convert 3 month Libor to SOFR. But is the spread really a constant?

26bps was the recommended adjustment based on historical analysis at the time. The actual spread in the market is not a constant, and has been below 26bps for a long time. The current LIBOR-SOFR spread is around 12bps. It's all negotiated, so people who earn interest are arguing it should be 26bps and people who pay interest are arguing it should be 12 bps. The market seem to be settling on 3M LIBOR = 3M SOFR + 15-20bps.

Re: Libor, long the most important number in finance, dies at 52

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Corruption Index is similar - it’s based on how corrupt people think a nation is. Nothing to do with how much actual corruption exists.

It seems overwhelmingly likely that "how corrupt people think a nation is" does have "[something] to do with how much actual corruption exists".

Kind of... but certain countries have done a great job of gaming the system, particularly one of the countries that is currently ranked #3.

Re: Libor, long the most important number in finance, dies at 52

#148
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more I've learned of the banking system, the more examples of this I see. It seems that much of the banking system was designed by bottom-line-oriented, non-systems-thinkers, who just wanted an immediate, good-enough solution to a problem. Accuracy, reproducibility, scalability, systemic integrity, and similar concerns often weren't a factor.

It evolved from a small system where the people all knew each other and went to the same few public schools where everything also ran on the honor system. It wasn't a bad design for its original scale & context. Those dumb bankers. We computer scientists would never design something that failed to scale through 5 decades.

[deleted]

Re: Libor, long the most important number in finance, dies at 52

#149
post #6

I have an adjustable rate mortgage based on LIBOR and the lender still has not said what they plan to do. The presumed replacement rate (SOFR) seems to be pegged near 0% which would be good.

legally the new definition of 3 month Libor is sofr + 26.161bps

Not quite - legally it's whatever is in the agreement and those have been (and still will be) subject to negotiation. In credit agreements without replacement language (e.g., pre 2018 agreements), a Borrower may very well be forced to borrower in prime, for instance.

What you're talking about is the credit spread adjustments from the ARRC formulation of the LIBOR replacement language (11.448 bps for 1 month, 26.161 bps for 3 months and 42.826 bps for 6 months) [0]. In reality, the credit spread adjustments for Term SOFR are still moving and the market has been all over the place - I've seen 10/15/25 bps at 1mo/3mo/6mo tenors (the most common formulation in the leveraged space right now) or a 10 bps flat adjustment (generally viewed as aggressive).

[0] https://www.newyorkfed.org/medialibrary/Microsites/arrc/file...

Re: Libor, long the most important number in finance, dies at 52

#150

When I first heard about LIBOR in 2002, I was surprised that the number is just based on a survey of bankers. Surely there would be accuracy issues with that? But at that time I was young and had no finance experience, so though that the adults in the room knew best. Turns out not! I don't think the base problem is that people shaded their numbers one way or another, it's that the system is designed wrong.

The more I've learned of the banking system, the more examples of this I see. It seems that much of the banking system was designed by bottom-line-oriented, non-systems-thinkers, who just wanted an immediate, good-enough solution to a problem. Accuracy, reproducibility, scalability, systemic integrity, and similar concerns often weren't a factor.

That’s pretty much the entire economy.
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