Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance • Hacker News Board

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#141

Post by softveda » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 2:31 AM UTC

ImTheMaddest wrote: post #133

stephen_g wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re the main ones pushing all these laws in. I am disgusted at Labor for their part but the core responsibility is 100% with the current Government. Just look at what’s happening now - in the last few days - Morrison and Joyce claimed they’re going to bring a bill to outlaw anonymous posting on social media sites - for the sole reason that some people were talking about a rumour that the just departed NSW deputy…

I didn't make that comment to have a political discussion, only to remark on the public's attitude to surveillance laws. However, I would like to point out the legislation to force people to provide ID to use social media and dating sites has been in the works for some time. https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Hou... Also note ALP's remarks on the bill, which call for sooner action and do not dis…

One thing is that the way Australian political parties work is very different to US. In US although president Biden is a democrat not all the senators from his party approve what he wants, they have some independent positions. So there are people in Democrat party who will speak against some policies. That doesn't usually happen in Australia. If it was then opposition can at least try. The few times that has happened in on personal ideological grounds like same sex marriage etc.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#142

Post by stephen_g » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 2:31 AM UTC

gruez wrote: post #89

stephen_g wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or with the Access and Disrupt bill, it’s no longer much of a stretch to ‘add and modify’ some illegal material onto your computers and devices…

Doesn't that obviously fall under entrapment?

Only if they admitted to doing it… The Access and Disrupt bill isn’t actually to do with evidence gathering. The way I see it happening is one agency would come up with a cover reason to hack you under that bill, which you or even other parts of the Government like the public prosecutor wouldn’t ever know about (it’s secret and there’s no obligation to inform anybody).

As far as most people would be able to tell, the Federal Police would have just raided you on an anonymous tip, seized your computers and found material you never knew was there…

It’s still heinous misconduct, but they’ve legalised 80% of the process and the level of secrecy around these agencies is so ridiculously high and the accountability so low, so it’s a lot less of a stretch now than it was just months ago - if they really feel you deserve it…

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#143

Post by softveda » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 2:33 AM UTC

waddlesworth wrote: post #59

stephen_g wrote: post #14

It’s a fairly complex situation. Most people just don’t realise all the encroaching police state laws even exist (I refer to the real ones Federally, not the temporary State-Government health orders that some people have tried to blow out of proportion). We have very little media diversity. The few billionaires who own the few outlets enjoy the continuing tax cuts, random free grants, advertising spend, etc. from the…

I absolutely agree with you, although I'm a little more optimistic. 2PP has Labor winning the next election. Some key figures in the Liberal party (Frydenberg, Hunt) have some tough campaigns ahead of them after the massive bias against their home state that's been on display. Then there's the whole friendlyjordies thing, which I've heard commentary about in circles where I would have never expected it. I don't know…

At best it will be a LNP or Labor minority govt. Very hard for Labor to win. Even if they did this issue will get the least priority amongst all things that Australia faces, like economic recovery, climate change, China, anti corruption body etc.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#144

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 2:35 AM UTC

randomhodler84 wrote: post #117

javagram wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems less heinous than spreading a dangerous virus and killing hundreds or thousands of citizens? We’ve seen other countries try that approach (e.g. here in the USA) and it clearly harms society and has led to massive suffering and loss of life. Considering this is being trialed as an alternative to being locked under guard in a hotel or cabin for two weeks, it’s actually less invasive too…

And this is the problem with slippery slopes. I find the facial recognition gps tracking apps to be horribly intrusive and not a good alternative to being locked up in a hotel, which is also awful. They always pull this crap, and society ends up accepting the lesser of two evils. Like the meme, always has been.

[deleted]

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#145

Post by softveda » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 2:36 AM UTC

grassmudhorse wrote: post #110

hresvelgr wrote: post #21

To anyone not from Australia or not across this, currently federal law enforcement can hack online accounts, remove, add, or modify data. They still need a warrant but can hack accounts in advance of a warrant, provided they have "reasonable suspicion" that the person they are hacking is committing a crime. There is also no recourse if the warrant is denied and they have already hacked the accounts of the person in s…

> currently federal law enforcement can hack online accounts, remove, add, or modify data Terrifying -- we are trusting officers who are incentivised to make convictions with the power to remove, add and modify data which could be used as evidence in determining the outcome of criminal cases. Would love for someone to tell me that I am missing something here that makes this acceptable.

Data Disruption powers https://www.itnews.com.au/news/police-get-online-account-tak...

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#146

Post by softveda » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 2:38 AM UTC

hresvelgr wrote: post #21

To anyone not from Australia or not across this, currently federal law enforcement can hack online accounts, remove, add, or modify data. They still need a warrant but can hack accounts in advance of a warrant, provided they have "reasonable suspicion" that the person they are hacking is committing a crime. There is also no recourse if the warrant is denied and they have already hacked the accounts of the person in s…

Even tougher powers are coming

"Under Ministerial direction, an operator would be compelled to provide information, take certain actions, or potentially have ASD insert itself into the incident response and provide direct “assistance” to counter the threat."

https://www.itnews.com.au/news/govt-cyber-incident-intervent...

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#147

Post by postingawayonhn » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 2:38 AM UTC

paranoidrobot wrote: post #120

calvinmorrison wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because 'protesting' is illegal lmao.

Violence is always a choice. Choose that, and suffer the consequences.

The problem is that when you make protests illegal and meet them with riot police only the most hardened/radical protesters will turn up. Of course there will end up being a little bit of violence.

And to address the wider point of violence in protests is it not sometimes necessary? If you believe your government has become tyrannical and they are willing to use force against you then what other option do you have?

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#148

Post by postingawayonhn » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 2:39 AM UTC

nhinck wrote: post #132

calvinmorrison wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because 'protesting' is illegal lmao.

Protesting is not illegal

Yes it is. In Victoria there are only 4 reasons to leave your home and gatherings are heavily restricted.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#149

Post by softveda » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 2:41 AM UTC

hulahoof wrote: post #35

The problem is that it is very easy to have a decent life here in Australia. We have never had to feel the full force of the repercussions of our voting or policies and as such there is an apathy towards the direction of government policies, at least within my age group - "I don't care they can have my meme's" or some variation of "I have nothing to hide" is the most common attitude. Unfortunately, by the time the ef…

Australians are the richest in the world, mostly living a good and dare I say peaceful life. I wouldn't think of even 100k people cares about this issue.

Re: Australians ‘complacent’ to rapid growth in digital surveillance

#150

Post by nhinck » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 2:44 AM UTC

postingawayonhn wrote: post #148

nhinck wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Protesting is not illegal

Yes it is. In Victoria there are only 4 reasons to leave your home and gatherings are heavily restricted.

So you can leave your house and meet up with 9 other people and protest for up to four hours?

Please point out where protesting is illegal.