Live data from Hacker News

Secret military aircraft possibly exposed on TikTok

warisboring.com

141–150 of 304 posts

Re: Secret military aircraft possibly exposed on TikTok

#141

An OPSEC violation has once again made a case for why using TikTok should be a punishable offense in the military, It's not clear why TikTok is singled out here, this could just has easily been posted to Facebook or Instagram or one of the other myriad of social media platforms, or pushed automatically to someone's open photo album in the cloud. If OPSEC is important, don't let people bring their personal camera phon…

> It's not clear why TikTok is singled out here, this could just has easily been posted to Facebook or Instagram or one of the other myriad of social media platforms, or pushed automatically to someone's open photo album in the cloud.

They do the same for other social media data.

Re: Secret military aircraft possibly exposed on TikTok

#142
post #132
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think you're missing the forest for the trees. Publicly posting confidential information is definitely bad. Bringing a device that can covertly collect enemies for adversaries is even worse. If you aren't posting top secret data, you also aren't sharing it with enemies on accident .

I don't think you're understanding what the person you're replying to is saying. If the app is made by an adversary, you don't need to post it publicly for there to be a problem. The app has the ability to send it directly without you even knowing.

By "Solve the problem of people posting this to social media" I mean the more general "you shouldn't be accessing apps that are security problems while in a secure area, which I covered in a separate thread on this article.

In that respect, whether it's TikTok or any other social media makes little difference. If it's use of apps like that is prohibited, then it's either not a problem or it's a personnel following policy problem.

That said, if people really think TikTok is a problem they should be worried about some other app that's ties are far less known that might get far less public scrutiny and do far more. By the time we're nitpicking which specific social media platform is the worst to have posted to in this case, we're so far down the path of problematic behavior that we're in absurdist territory. The fact that someone's walking around with the equivalent of a video camera taking movies of what appears to be top secret material is the problem, and whether they put it up on TikTok or YouTube, or sell to the Washington Post or to RT is just bikeshedding mostly irrelevant details.

The solution to this all is probably along the lines of "don't allow smartphones in secure areas" or only allow smartphones that have been vetted by security.

Re: Secret military aircraft possibly exposed on TikTok

#143
This reminds me of what happened with Strava's global heatmap many years ago, that exposed military bases and where staff moved most frequently.

Strava at the time was high aggressively told they were at fault for "leaking" this information. But this is a problem more so with staff clearly using Garmin, Fitbits, Apple watches, mobile phones etc to log their activity and upload it to publicly available sites.

Strava also excluded the GPS activities from the heatmap where users marked the activity as private or opted out for data sharing.

Re: Secret military aircraft possibly exposed on TikTok

#144
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if they carry them off duty only, it's a crapton of useful intel info that can be harvested from more or less open data.

Yes. So it people tagging pictures or leaving reviews on Yelp. Is your suggestion that off-duty people during their personal time should not use social media for purely personal ends with personal info, as long as it's for things that are not already to not be done while working with security clearance? Otherwise, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

Given that fitbits and their ilk have exposed the specific locations and layouts of airbases, perhaps they should be a bit more careful with what technology they use, even in their offtime.

Re: Secret military aircraft possibly exposed on TikTok

#145
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree it's not necessarily the same, but also think that it's bad to have any social media in a top secret context. That said, it's pretty obvious the bias the source has: - "and posted it to the Chinese government-affiliated platform." - "social media platform tied to America’s top adversary" The problem here is people sharing stuff publicly which they are obviously not supposed to. The rest is just theater, even…

As a non-american, it's always interesting to see the point of view of the major military power. Why is China "America's top adversary"? Aside from the OPSEC issue, which is understandable, why does the author - and I guess it's a widespread view - considers China as America's utmost adversary? Can't there exist two rich and prosperous countries? Why does the author uses such jingoist terms? How should other countrie…

China routine threatens US allies with military, even nuclear action.

If the US military did not consider China a potential adversary it is not doing its job.

Threatening nuclear attack on Japan

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202107/1228036.shtml

Border standoff with India

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1192872.shtml

Threatening Australia with nukes

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202109/1234460.shtml

Re: Secret military aircraft possibly exposed on TikTok

#147
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree it's not necessarily the same, but also think that it's bad to have any social media in a top secret context. That said, it's pretty obvious the bias the source has: - "and posted it to the Chinese government-affiliated platform." - "social media platform tied to America’s top adversary" The problem here is people sharing stuff publicly which they are obviously not supposed to. The rest is just theater, even…

As a non-american, it's always interesting to see the point of view of the major military power. Why is China "America's top adversary"? Aside from the OPSEC issue, which is understandable, why does the author - and I guess it's a widespread view - considers China as America's utmost adversary? Can't there exist two rich and prosperous countries? Why does the author uses such jingoist terms? How should other countrie…

I can't speak for the author or to popular anti-China narratives in the U.S., but from a traditional geopolitical perspective China poses a threat because of territorial claims independent of Taiwan, most importantly its claims over the South China Sea. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spratly_Islands_dispute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_disputes_in_the_So... Those claims pose a grave threat directly to global shipping and to regional fishing and mining rights, and indirectly to the largely peaceful maritime waters status quo globally.

Over the past decade China has also been making increasingly brazen land grabs along and near the Indian border. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_border_dispute and, most recently, https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/05/07/china-bhutan-border-vil... Relative to the South China Sea that's slightly less of a concern geopolitically (ignoring the potential for another full blown war between India and China), but does evidence China's actual (not simply rhetorical) aggression.

Finally, North Korea is a protected state of China. The only reason North Korea has nuclear weapons is because China prevents military and, to a lesser degree, economic retaliation. China permitting North Korea to develop and possess nuclear weapons is a violation of China's role as a nuclear super power, especially in light of the proliferation risk North Korea poses. By contrast, the U.S. killed Taiwan's nuclear program the moment it was discovered, and strongly opposed both the Israeli and Pakistani programs up until they were already an accomplished fact. (Note that the U.S. had far more leverage with Taiwan--it could threaten to retract its defense umbrella, which would have passively permitted immediate Chinese invasion--whereas with Israel and Pakistan the only viable options would have required direct retaliation.)

Foreign policy and military analysts in the U.S. and, I would assume, China understand that the global economic tussle between the U.S. and China are distinct from the geopolitical security issues. (Strongly related, of course, but the calculus nonetheless significantly different.) The masses and certain political factions in each country don't tend to draw such distinctions, though.

Re: Secret military aircraft possibly exposed on TikTok

#148
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing the forest for the trees. Publicly posting confidential information is definitely bad. Bringing a device that can covertly collect information for adversaries is even worse.

> I think you're missing the forest for the trees. Publicly posting confidential information is definitely bad. Bringing a device that can covertly collect enemies for adversaries is even worse. If you aren't posting top secret data, you also aren't sharing it with enemies on accident .

There’s no requirement for you to actively post data to break opsec - often it happens behind the scenes. See the fitbit/airbase incident.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/apps/a15912407/s...

Re: Secret military aircraft possibly exposed on TikTok

#149
I'm surprised that there's only one other person in this thread discussing the possibility that this is a deliberately coordinated release of information by the military. I've never worked for the US military, however I doubt that if you're working in close proximity to classified hardware they just let you loose with a smartphone in your hand. The person filming this would surely have been easily identifiable, and subsequently punished. Even the most ignorant civilian contractor would surely have understood the full ramifications of their actions doing this. I think it seems to contrived.

Re: Secret military aircraft possibly exposed on TikTok

#150
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone is an expert on the Internet, this is some guy's opinion, not a statement of official US government policy. Also makes it sound more dramatic, especially with the Air Force General "looking impressed" hot take. The fact of the matter is that it would be a bigger problem if a top secret aircraft was sitting outside exposed to the sky in full daylight in the first place, where Gen. Kelly's and presumably every…

You know they do have to fly these things for real testing. Only so much can be simulated with computers and wind tunnels. It's not a matter if it's exposed, it's a matter of when and where it's exposed. Security through obscurity is very much still a legitimate thing for a lot of aspects. We're not quite to a point yet where you have continuous ultra high resolution satellite imagery of the ground where you could fe…

Well, there's a slight difference between "flying these things for real testing" and being carted around on a flatbed where yahoos with a smartphones are around to take videos and post them.

Presumably, if it actually requires some level of security clearance, either it should have been covered for transport, or the yahoos with smartphones should have been cleared of the area to at least reduce the chance of something silly like this.

Not a whole lot you can do if you need to fly it and it's going to be in or around public areas, nor much you can do about satellite imagery, but that doesn't mean ignore all opsec.

Post reply on HN