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I’m an ICU Doctor and I Can't Believe What Unvaccinated Patients Are Saying

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Re: I’m an ICU Doctor and I Can't Believe What Unvaccinated Patients Are Saying

#141

Post by stmfreak »

CarelessExpert wrote: post #123
areyousure wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7031e2.htm In the Provincetown, Massachusetts outbreak: "Among five COVID-19 patients who were hospitalized, four were fully vaccinated".

I agree that event is concerning. But it's also a small sample size and there could be many reasons why, in that group, the numbers came out the way they did, including natural clustering. That would also explain the OPs anecdote as it's very possible an individual hospital is seeing more hospitalizations among the vaccinated just due to the vagaries of statistics. That's why large sample sizes and careful analysis a…

No true Scotsman here!

Ignore the data from Britain, Israel, Massachusetts, anecdotes here. Just keep on spewing the CDC/CNN talking points as gospel.

Re: I’m an ICU Doctor and I Can't Believe What Unvaccinated Patients Are Saying

#142

Post by stmfreak »

mindcrime wrote: post #21

I really don't understand the anti-vaxxers. I mean, OK, when the vaccine first came out, I could understand a small measure of hesitancy. Hell, I even said something to the effect of "I don't necessarily want to be first in line." But at this point, the vaccines have been given to, what, billions of people? And the number of people who have suffered severe ramifications that can be attributed to a vaccine rounds to z…

These vaccines aren’t even a year old. If there were long term side effects, do you think they would show up in a few months? Have we even had enough time to see if people are having trouble getting pregnant? Let alone get vaccinated and then gestate a child to term.

Sure, act like the vaccines have been around forever. You are revealing your age. Some of us have seen this show before in 2009 and in the 1970s. Even with the best intentions, scientists make mistakes.

Re: I’m an ICU Doctor and I Can't Believe What Unvaccinated Patients Are Saying

#143

Post by codyswann »

stmfreak wrote: post #140
cblackthornekc wrote: post #5

Still haven't gotten vaccinated and need to know where to go? https://www.vaccines.gov/

Nope and nope. Waiting for phase three trials to complete.

What can phase three trials show us that an empirical trial of a billion people can’t?

Re: I’m an ICU Doctor and I Can't Believe What Unvaccinated Patients Are Saying

#144

Post by walkhour »

CodeGlitch wrote: post #93
chrismcb wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, if you are young, what are the reasons to get vaccinated?

The more people it infects (even if it is young healthy people), the greater chance of more deadly strain. COVID-19 isn't that deadly, but is highly infectious. What happens if it mutates into something like this (another form of the coronavirus): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East_respiratory_syndro... (34% chance of death).

Is there a precedence of a virus mutating into a deadlier version instead of a less deadly, more contagious version?

Re: I’m an ICU Doctor and I Can't Believe What Unvaccinated Patients Are Saying

#145

Post by CarelessExpert »

stmfreak wrote: post #141
CarelessExpert wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that event is concerning. But it's also a small sample size and there could be many reasons why, in that group, the numbers came out the way they did, including natural clustering. That would also explain the OPs anecdote as it's very possible an individual hospital is seeing more hospitalizations among the vaccinated just due to the vagaries of statistics. That's why large sample sizes and careful analysis a…

No true Scotsman here! Ignore the data from Britain, Israel, Massachusetts, anecdotes here. Just keep on spewing the CDC/CNN talking points as gospel.

What? I cited a recent study from Britain. Did you read the comment thread and the supplied references or are you just knee-jerking?

I then provided reasons why the two known datasets that might sugggest particularly poor vaccine efficacy versus Delta (both of which I was aware of) should be taken with a grain of salt. In the case of Mass, the dataset is small and hard to extrapolate from, and the Israelis released neither their data not their methodology so we can't evaluate the quality of the study.

Unless you can explain otherwise those are both perfectly valid reasons not to cherrypick those studies to make the case here, particularly given they contradict a mountain of evidence that leads to different conclusions.

Of course, you're more than free to similarly critique the citations I provided if you care to.

Frankly, I'm not sure you know what the No True Scotsman fallacy is...

Re: I’m an ICU Doctor and I Can't Believe What Unvaccinated Patients Are Saying

#146

Post by mindcrime »

stmfreak wrote: post #142
mindcrime wrote: post #21

I really don't understand the anti-vaxxers. I mean, OK, when the vaccine first came out, I could understand a small measure of hesitancy. Hell, I even said something to the effect of "I don't necessarily want to be first in line." But at this point, the vaccines have been given to, what, billions of people? And the number of people who have suffered severe ramifications that can be attributed to a vaccine rounds to z…

These vaccines aren’t even a year old. If there were long term side effects, do you think they would show up in a few months? Have we even had enough time to see if people are having trouble getting pregnant? Let alone get vaccinated and then gestate a child to term. Sure, act like the vaccines have been around forever. You are revealing your age. Some of us have seen this show before in 2009 and in the 1970s. Even w…

If there were long term side effects, do you think they would show up in a few months?

Perhaps not. But, again, does anybody have any particular reason, including even a theoretical justification, for believing there will be "long term side effects?" Given that the actual vaccine material is eliminated from your system in a matter of days, leaving behind only anti-bodies that were produced by your body?

I mean, sure, one can play the "anything is possible" card, but that is the same card that lets one claim that we are living in The Matrix, or that there is an invisible teapot in orbit around the Sun somewhere between Earth and Mars.

Sure, act like the vaccines have been around forever.

I'm not.

You are revealing your age.

I'm pretty sure you're wrong about that, and even if I were, what does my age have to do with anything?

My point was, and remains, that nobody has put forth anything by way of either actual evidence, or a plausible theoretical argument, that seems to justify any strong belief in as-yet-unseen long term side effects of the various vaccines.

Re: I’m an ICU Doctor and I Can't Believe What Unvaccinated Patients Are Saying

#147

Post by jfengel »

stmfreak wrote: post #140
cblackthornekc wrote: post #5

Still haven't gotten vaccinated and need to know where to go? https://www.vaccines.gov/

Nope and nope. Waiting for phase three trials to complete.

Phase 3 trials were concluded last year. That's why the vaccines are available.

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-deta...

Did you mean that you were waiting for the regular use authorization rather than the emergency use authorization? OK, that's expected early next month:

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/...

You might want to make your reservation early, since I hear a lot of people claiming that they're waiting for that. Of course it's the very same vaccine that's available today; it's just a matter of going over the paperwork to make sure all of the i's are dotted and t's crossed.

Re: I’m an ICU Doctor and I Can't Believe What Unvaccinated Patients Are Saying

#148

Post by jfengel »

poslathian wrote: post #60
umvi wrote: post #48

Once upon a time there was town called Statisticsville with a population of 1000 people. Every year around 8 people die. Sometimes 7, sometimes 9. One year, a new infectious disease came along and killed 2 additional people (both elderly). The population nearly had a civil war over these additional 2 deaths because some people thought the additional 2 deaths could have been prevented with better enforced public healt…

Not sure why downvoted. Do people think this comment indicates you are an antivaxxer? Which part of the comment suggests that?

The part where the "economic costs" of preventing the disease have been reduced to cheap masks and free vaccines, and yet they're still somehow too high. Because it was never really about the economic costs, but about a longstanding culture war.

Re: I’m an ICU Doctor and I Can't Believe What Unvaccinated Patients Are Saying

#149

Post by Inate_Hikkers »

bserge wrote: post #18
RyJones wrote: post #2

I can. I got my shots as soon as I could, but I know lots of people that will never do it. Yesterday I was eating at a ramen shop - traffic was slow, so I got to listen to the bulletproof young man waiting tables talk to his friend at length about how he'd never get the shot, just like the flu, I'm not an anti-vaxxer - but, I don't wear tinfoil hats - but. The list of reasons not to do it was long and apparently conv…

A relative of mine is buying into the vaccine conspiracies along with shitting on depression and other mental problems, and honestly, I wish they'd get a serious case of Covid or something. These people don't learn until someone they know actually fucking dies.

I'm not conspiratorial but I am "vaccine hesitant" as they call it here in the US. For instance, if I theoretically got bitten by a rabid dog and I didn't want to die I would take the rabies vax. I personally disapprove of the COVID vaccine since it is very unusual for vaccines to be made in two days...and evidence regarding long-term side effects is scarce. However if taking the Covid vaccine meant I would get $10k in cash, then of course I would take it.

https://www.businessinsider.com/moderna-designed-coronavirus...

If you haven't seen my earlier comment I am the guy that DM'd you on reddit, I noticed your account was suspended and reverse searched the username.

Re: I’m an ICU Doctor and I Can't Believe What Unvaccinated Patients Are Saying

#150

Post by codersteve »

nprateem wrote: post #15

On a similar note: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/04/fit-and-health...

Did you see the line near the bottom of the article:

>>However, McCann said her brother had asthma in an earlier tweet on 3 July.

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