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How The Chronicle is trying to malign Sci-Hub

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Re: How The Chronicle is trying to malign Sci-Hub

#141
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being attacked leads to paranoid-like behavior. Your Bayesian filters go all wonky when you know they're actually out to get you. It pollutes everything in your life; you need to be suspicious of everyone and everything. The other thing about a constant series of attacks -- without support to field them -- is that you DO misidentify things, and sometimes respond imperfectly. There are 24 hours in a day. Sometimes you…

Honestly, I'm very close to sending her a few btc. Although my employer would hate me for using it, sci hub is just an absolutely brilliant, internationally known godsend. One of the things that publishers have started doing of late is just linking the "pdf" button to things that are not pdfs. I have legal access to basically every journal article I could ever want, but sci-hub provides a much better product: you act…

Spot on! Thank you for that. Some work I do would be sunk without her and we know there are countless independent researchers who could say the same thing.

Re: How The Chronicle is trying to malign Sci-Hub

#142
post #138
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. Peer review is a kind of quality filter (in theory but seldom in practice), but that does nothing to solve the question of “is this a paper worthy of publishing”. That question gets resolved by the publisher/editor of the journal long before the paper makes it to peer review.

And the editors are (like the reviewers) a bunch of scientists paid by their respective institutions, aren't they? So, what does the publisher do?

I thought I just answered that, above?

Re: How The Chronicle is trying to malign Sci-Hub

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is not, though. No native speaker of English, which the newspaper of record in Houston, Texas, might be forgiven for assuming make up its primary readership, would ever assume that anything described as a "one-man show" must have a woman hidden away doing all of the behind-the-scenes work. The idiom means "the work of a single person," and that's it. Nothing else.

This is the Chronicle of Higher Education, not the Houston Chronicle

Doh! Thanks, I missed that.

Re: How The Chronicle is trying to malign Sci-Hub

#144
post #110
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope that there will never be a "legal-streaming" equivalent. These papers have been paid for already, through the salary of the people that wrote and peer reviewed them. There is a theft happening, but it's not the way commonly portrayed. It's the publishers stealing from the scientific community, universities and tax payers, and the politicians and bureaucrats are complicit. The only reason why people publish wit…

> It's the publishers stealing from the scientific community, universities and tax payers, and the politicians and bureaucrats are complicit. Not really. The publishers provide hardly any value, definitely not commensurate with their prices. So why don't the scientists simply walk away? Why not publish on the internet, why not simply upload to arxiv.org? It's because funding through quasi government agencies (NSF, NI…

The publishers provide hardly any value

Here's an insider's view from having worked the tech side at a small scientific publisher. Prices are too high and the model is flawed [-1] but your opinion is not accurate, the publisher did a tremendous amount of work:

First a distinction, two types of editors: The publisher's editors, each of which handled a batch of journals. The journal editor, who did not actually work for the publisher. The publisher's editors were well educated in the fields they covered, though usually not specialists or researchers in their own right. The journal editors were typically researchers themselves, and being the editor of the journal was not their primary work.

-The publisher's editors organized individual journal editors, helping to find new ones when one left, keeping them on deadline, etc.

-The publisher's editors processed submissions to the journal working with criteria set by the journal editor to perform an initial review for off-topic, low quality, or otherwise flawed submissions.

-The publisher's editors coordinated an enormous network of peer reviewers and the logistics of getting them assigned to submissions and also staying on top of them for deadlines in submitting reviews & feedback.

Other publishing staff:

-performed proof reading & copy editing

-did the layout & type setting

-They used professional color matching labs for all color images, which itself was $100/image (tech for this has probably changed and made it cheaper) [0]

-They managed every aspect of the actual printing of the journal, dealing with printers, reviewing proofs, coordinating a final round of review by the journal editor and authors.

-warehousing copies for expected distribution over the life of the journal, re-prints when something was more popular than expected, and all order fulfillments to individuals & libraries. [1]

-They handled all of the financial logistics, from collecting subscription fees to paying the journal editor and handling royalty fees for decades after a journal was printed & back copies were purchased.

This setup might seem strange, but consider that for the journal itself, the journal editor is often a researcher themselves with very little interest in the mechanics of putting together a publication. They handle reviewing which articles that published and coordinate on the peer review process, and a bit more, but the lion's share of the work of actually turning raw, non-peer reviewed submissions into a printable journal was either coordinated by or directly done by the publisher. All of this cost a lot of money. (Incidentally, the publisher I worked for was ultimately purchased by Elsevier a while after I left, but then Elsevier had to take over all of this.) [2]

[-1] My own opinion is that research funded by the public in some way should have part of the grant dedicated to publication costs. This would keep subscription costs to a minimum and also ensure that not just positive results were published.

[0] Of course this would only apply to printed journals. If you were viewing them online you had to deal with whatever combination of monitor idiosyncrasies and color profiles available, and the difference could be large. It was obvious why they went through the trouble of paying for color matching on print versions.

[1] This was before print on demand was much of a thing. These days it's probably easier to manage

[2] This isn't always how it works. It was where I worked, but for a large publisher like Elsevier there are different models. It's definitely how it works for journals owned by Elsevier. More independent journals may do more of the work themselves, but they may also contract Elsevier to do it. Elsevier may simply license the rights to distribute a journals. But someone has to do the work outlined above.

Re: How The Chronicle is trying to malign Sci-Hub

#145
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that it was petty of her but unless if anybody else steps up in her place in a substantial way and fight the major publishers, I think we should be a little lenient on her idiosyncracities. I don't know what the real story behind the block is but something tells me there was a lot of other baggage on her mind prior to hearing about the wasp.

Look, i think she makes a great job. But i hate it when those fanboys cannot see the irony of what she did...i would be proud like hell if a scientist would name a slug after me.

I do not disagree here. That being said, I fucking hate wasps so while I wouldn't hold a grudge over it, I'd definitely have mixed feelings about having a wasp named after me myself.

Re: How The Chronicle is trying to malign Sci-Hub

#146
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are a filter. They have a reputation to uphold of publishing worth while stuff (hard to believe sometimes...)

But isn't the peer-review process the filter?

Ish. Really depends on the field & journal.

Peer review is mostly a requirement but some have professional editors as well, which is a paid position. Costs for OA journals are almost always borne by those successful at getting through the process which means that any costs are related also to the rate of rejection. For journals groups like Nature, that may mean an OA cost paying ~10-20x the actual cost (plus profit margin) due to a high rejection rate.

Broadly the reason this has stuck around so long is that what publishers are assigning to journals is a vague notion of trust. They are incentivised to keep "high quality" articles in their list as that's what people want to be listed in. The recent discussions around reproducibility tie in with discussions around clickbait news, in that the incentive of citations is not identical to the incentive of quality.

Peer review isn't free to do either despite one part of the labour being free, PeerJ increasing their costs is a good overview of this.

(disclaimer - work for a company (digital science) that's related to publishing in that we analyse and combine the data, and we're owned by a larger publishing house (holtzbrinck) but I have no horse in this game myself)

Re: How The Chronicle is trying to malign Sci-Hub

#147
post #138
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. Peer review is a kind of quality filter (in theory but seldom in practice), but that does nothing to solve the question of “is this a paper worthy of publishing”. That question gets resolved by the publisher/editor of the journal long before the paper makes it to peer review.

And the editors are (like the reviewers) a bunch of scientists paid by their respective institutions, aren't they? So, what does the publisher do?

Not necessarily, depends on the journal.

Re: How The Chronicle is trying to malign Sci-Hub

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think she is trying hard to be respectable, i don't think she is trying to be just cool.

The author of Sci-Hub doesn't need to try hard to be respectable.

Which does not imply that she is not trying.

Re: How The Chronicle is trying to malign Sci-Hub

#149
post #42

Having worked as a researcher all my life in academia and the industry, I can only support Sci-Hub. Publishing as it works currently is an incredibly time consuming and expensive process funneling tremendous amounts of tax money into the pocḱets of publishers. To some extent the whole situation reminds me of the video and music content piracy era in the early 2000s. I hope there will be an equivalent of Apple Music/S…

Having worked as a researcher all my life in academia (but not in the industry), I can not support Sci-Hub. I know it's an unpopular opinion but I think it's the wrong approach. As scientists, I think we should be held to especially high moral standards. And there are two questions one should be allowed to ask: 1. Is is right to publish research results funded by tax money behind a paywall? 2. Is it right to circumve…

"Is it right to circumvent a paywall to access publicly funded research results? ... no"

Why not?

Re: How The Chronicle is trying to malign Sci-Hub

#150
post #19

Having worked as a researcher all my life in academia and the industry, I can only support Sci-Hub. Publishing as it works currently is an incredibly time consuming and expensive process funneling tremendous amounts of tax money into the pocḱets of publishers. To some extent the whole situation reminds me of the video and music content piracy era in the early 2000s. I hope there will be an equivalent of Apple Music/S…

These papers that have been paid for by tax payers and peer reviewed for free should be made freely available legally.

> These papers that have been paid for by tax payers and peer reviewed for free should be made freely available legally.

I strongly disagree with this. Labor has value, and we shouldn't let capital alone dictate ownership. The people who do the research are more important than the bureaucrats who signed the checks.

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