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Catalytic Converter Theft

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Re: Catalytic Converter Theft

#141

Post by emodendroket »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #113
emodendroket wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How often does your average person sell scrap parts? I don't think the situations are analogous.

The people that do it as a hobby/side gig probably go through 2-25 cars/yr with the people on the higher end doing more scrapping and less individual part selling.

Yes, we can always dream up some extreme case where somebody would find it onerous. How should we weigh that against a lot of people who are just trying to use their car to get to work having their catalytic converters stolen?

Re: Catalytic Converter Theft

#142

Post by cartoonworld »

l320093jj wrote: post #94
blinkingled wrote: post #10

Easy to install shields like this one from catshield https://catshield.com/ can be a somewhat effective deterrent given the thieves have to be able to remove it quickly without making noise. Also hybrids are more targeted for cat theft because they have more of the metals than normal cars to compensate for frequent engine stops and starts from cold.

Our catalytic converter was stolen a few months ago. It was strange because we were parked in front of a government building -- library and courthouse -- and were only inside for about 15 minutes, in the afternoon. Came outside and the car sounded like the muffler was missing, or like I was driving an old tank. Our new car came with installation of a catshield. When talking to various autobody places, they were skept…

It is indeed a huge pain in the ass to chop out exhaust components behind anything at all. Cutting tools are all speed and no torque.

If you use stainless or something it will really piss them off. Aluminum will deform, frustrating cutting attempts. Mesh will block access just as easily, maybe go for a stainless mesh so its really annoying to cut through and bank the weight reduction/cooling benefits.

If you use a grinder, the abrasion will take a lot longer as you have to clear both spots where you would like to cut.

If you use a sawzall aka reciprocating saw, the blade has to have totally clear movements or else it will flex and slow down.

If you use a torch it goes quicker, but the set up and hauling the tanks is not easy, torches are fiddly, especially if not properly maintained, the smoke is poison, and theres fuel lines down there to boot.

Unpleasant. They'll just curse and roll onto the next mark.

Re: Catalytic Converter Theft

#143

Post by rasz »

pengaru wrote: post #104
cartoonworld wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

200-400% hasn't been my experience, but I'll give you maybe they should expand carb nationwide to increase the demand side of the curve, lowering costs overall. >if the cat isn't working, the vehicle should fail its regular smog test. The vehicle ECU monitors the exhaust composition before and after the first catalyst. Downstream, the performance is not monitored by the computer. afiak the ECU doesn't have the capabi…

> 200-400% hasn't been my experience, but I'll give you maybe they should expand carb nationwide to increase the demand side of the curve, lowering costs overall. 49-state legal, direct-fit: $118 https://www.ebay.com/itm/253120020746 CA-legal, universal: $776 https://www.ebay.com/itm/304044103436 CA-legal direct-fit: $1048 (!) https://www.ebay.com/itm/174087409201 > The vehicle ECU monitors the exhaust composition be…

the "49-state legal" one is empty inside, its a legal scam. Works because those 49 states dont actually test for CO, HC or NOx. They merely use ODB computer checking for

- check engine light

- fault codes

- readiness monitors

its a legislative joke.

In EU even a 20 year old bmw e36 cat still goes for ~$1K, because we actually test emissions.

Re: Catalytic Converter Theft

#144

Post by _huayra_ »

jnsaff2 wrote: post #117
vilhelm_s wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really doubt that. If we focus in particular on bike theft (one of the examples above), some webpage says that Norway had 60k bike thefts in 2004, 20k of which was reported to the police[1]. This is out of a population of 4.5 million. Some other page says that in New York City, there are 75k bikes stolen per year with 15k reported to the police[2]. This is out of a population of 8.4 million. So all of Norway (rural…

Now to make things interesting, want to adjust this for per capita bike ownership or usage? Otherwise this is could just be picking places favorable to the point you want to make?

Yeah I think this is indeed skewed. Per capita bike theft is gonna be higher if those "capita" own more bikes!

Re: Catalytic Converter Theft

#145

Post by pengaru »

rasz wrote: post #143
pengaru wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 200-400% hasn't been my experience, but I'll give you maybe they should expand carb nationwide to increase the demand side of the curve, lowering costs overall. 49-state legal, direct-fit: $118 https://www.ebay.com/itm/253120020746 CA-legal, universal: $776 https://www.ebay.com/itm/304044103436 CA-legal direct-fit: $1048 (!) https://www.ebay.com/itm/174087409201 > The vehicle ECU monitors the exhaust composition be…

the "49-state legal" one is empty inside, its a legal scam. Works because those 49 states dont actually test for CO, HC or NOx. They merely use ODB computer checking for - check engine light - fault codes - readiness monitors its a legislative joke. In EU even a 20 year old bmw e36 cat still goes for ~$1K, because we actually test emissions.

Lies.

I bought that ebay cat last year after my cat was destroyed in a U-joint failure when the prop shaft impacted it at speed.

It is not empty, and the car passes a CA sniffer test with flying colors using it.

It is pretty cheaply constructed though, thin walls, and the ID seemed a bit smaller than stock so not great for power.

Re: Catalytic Converter Theft

#146

Post by letitbeirie »

tomc1985 wrote: post #93
_huayra_ wrote: post #52

It's things like this that make it such a shock to go to an extremely safe country / area. All the little scripts one has to keep track of to be "safe and secure" in the US (e.g. instinctively locking your doors all the way to learning that you can't park in SF to take your girlfriend to lunch on your way to drop her off at the airport because a big suitcase is a target for these rampant smash-and-grabs; unfortunatel…

That kind of advise was par for course living in Amsterdam Zuidoost, as well as travelling around Berlin, Madrid, Santiago.... I'd say it applies to being anywhere with a significant crime rate or poverty burden Hardly unique to the US

Advice I got in Amsterdam:

Buy a bike worth less than the lock.

Re: Catalytic Converter Theft

#147

Post by cartoonworld »

pengaru wrote: post #145
rasz wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the "49-state legal" one is empty inside, its a legal scam. Works because those 49 states dont actually test for CO, HC or NOx. They merely use ODB computer checking for - check engine light - fault codes - readiness monitors its a legislative joke. In EU even a 20 year old bmw e36 cat still goes for ~$1K, because we actually test emissions.

Lies. I bought that ebay cat last year after my cat was destroyed in a U-joint failure when the prop shaft impacted it at speed. It is not empty, and the car passes a CA sniffer test with flying colors using it. It is pretty cheaply constructed though, thin walls, and the ID seemed a bit smaller than stock so not great for power.

Sorry about your u-joint headaches.

The cheap ones are less resilient as you noticed. When hydrocarbons (such as from blowby or imperfectly metered fuel) hit the substrate it works against the catalyst chemistry and the catalyst produces combustion clearing it up. But this skyrockets the temperatures, damages or melts the substrate reducing its effectiveness using up the substrate. There is a lot of expansion and contraction in a 1000-degree cat, failing ones can double that, so the poor bonding techniques will turn it into a rattle can fast.

Thin walls, less substrate, and poor bonding lead them to fail prematurely.

Good luck.

Re: Catalytic Converter Theft

#148

Post by BitwiseFool »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #53
_huayra_ wrote: post #52

It's things like this that make it such a shock to go to an extremely safe country / area. All the little scripts one has to keep track of to be "safe and secure" in the US (e.g. instinctively locking your doors all the way to learning that you can't park in SF to take your girlfriend to lunch on your way to drop her off at the airport because a big suitcase is a target for these rampant smash-and-grabs; unfortunatel…

Petty theft patterns in states that have passed ballot measures or counties that have taken executive actions reducing the penalties on petty theft to the point where the ROI is positive even if you get regularly caught should not be taken as indicative of the entire country. I live in a city that most of HN would turn up their nose at. It's nothing like what people from the west coast describe as the status quo ther…

And when you call the Police they just show up so that you can file a police report for your insurance and record-keeping. The more candid officers will tell you not to expect anything from "the investigation".

Re: Catalytic Converter Theft

#149

Post by tomc1985 »

letitbeirie wrote: post #146
tomc1985 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That kind of advise was par for course living in Amsterdam Zuidoost, as well as travelling around Berlin, Madrid, Santiago.... I'd say it applies to being anywhere with a significant crime rate or poverty burden Hardly unique to the US

Advice I got in Amsterdam: Buy a bike worth less than the lock.

Yup!

The nice thing is that when that bike inevitably breaks, the city's underworld provides an efficient and free bike disposal service

Re: Catalytic Converter Theft

#150

Post by 29083011397778 »

cartoonworld wrote: post #33
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #23

Cat theft would be a $200 problem ($50 for the cat, $150 for someone to put it in there) on the order of a cracked windshield instead of a $2k problem if CARB would pull its head out of it's butt and stop caring about what cat you put on what as long as it sniffs within spec at the tailpipe. I'm not condoning theft but CA state policy is a large part of why this issue hurts as bad as it does.

Cat install costs way more than that. But aside, would you really be okay going back to the days of photochemical smog choking away your sunlight and skyrocketing rates of asthma and acid rain dissolving your ancestor's gravestones?? Federal law requires the catalytic converters. Everyone is definitely better off for them.

We wouldn't necessarily have to go back to that. We would be worse off without them [0], but Honda could get even GM's 5.7L V8 engine to pass regulations without a catalytic converter [1] in the mid-seventies. Eventually they couldn't get their CVCC engines to pass emissions without a cat, but we could make it back to the late seventies / early eighties. And that assumes we have made zero progress in engineering and material science over the last four decades, which strikes me as unlikely.

[0] https://www.designnews.com/stub/we-make-it-simple-how-honda-...

[1] https://jalopnik.com/when-honda-gave-gm-one-of-historys-most...

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