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Catalytic Converter Theft

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Re: Catalytic Converter Theft

#101

Post by cartoonworld »

CraigJPerry wrote: post #45
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #23

Cat theft would be a $200 problem ($50 for the cat, $150 for someone to put it in there) on the order of a cracked windshield instead of a $2k problem if CARB would pull its head out of it's butt and stop caring about what cat you put on what as long as it sniffs within spec at the tailpipe. I'm not condoning theft but CA state policy is a large part of why this issue hurts as bad as it does.

In our market we don’t have CARB but an OEM cat for a Mazda Rx8 retails at £1300. An aftermarket like for like is £800 (there are cheaper “race” cats but its a different product with less of the expensive precious metals inside). Edit: a fairer example would be a ford focus - one of the most popular cars in the uk. £200 aftermarket main cat, £70 aftermarket pre-cat.

That's the aftermarket for you. There are aftermarket California cats with a similar discount available.

Re: Catalytic Converter Theft

#102

Post by juanani »

vilhelm_s wrote: post #98
_huayra_ wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah I should be more specific: urban areas in those countries. The level of petty crime in any major city in the US is far higher than any city in those countries I mentioned. In non-urban areas in the US things are better for sure, but you still have to deal with other things like having complete asshole neighbors that you really can't do anything about because small quality of life crimes like partying every night w…

I really doubt that. If we focus in particular on bike theft (one of the examples above), some webpage says that Norway had 60k bike thefts in 2004, 20k of which was reported to the police[1]. This is out of a population of 4.5 million. Some other page says that in New York City, there are 75k bikes stolen per year with 15k reported to the police[2]. This is out of a population of 8.4 million. So all of Norway (rural…

Aren't you forgetting to include the percentage of population that owns/uses a bike? Hey but links to statistics are cool, makes you sound super smart dunnit?

Re: Catalytic Converter Theft

#103

Post by jtbayly »

geephroh wrote: post #95

This has become enough of an issue here in the Seattle metro area that the King County prosecutor's office has a special taskforce, in conjunction with several neighboring jurisdictions. It happens in the city, the suburbs, and even at busy trailheads. It's particularly concerning because some folks are beginning to take matters into their own hands[1]. 1. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/man-accused-.…

What do you expect people to do if the civil magistrate decides not to protect people's life and property?

Re: Catalytic Converter Theft

#104

Post by pengaru »

cartoonworld wrote: post #100
pengaru wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But aside, would you really be okay going back to the days of photochemical smog choking away your sunlight and skyrocketing rates of asthma and acid rain dissolving your ancestor's gravestones?? You're missing the point: new CA-legal catalytic converters cost 200-400% the price of 49-state legal ones because of the CARB certification. Most vendors won't even ship a new 49-state cat to a CA address, and selling use…

200-400% hasn't been my experience, but I'll give you maybe they should expand carb nationwide to increase the demand side of the curve, lowering costs overall. >if the cat isn't working, the vehicle should fail its regular smog test. The vehicle ECU monitors the exhaust composition before and after the first catalyst. Downstream, the performance is not monitored by the computer. afiak the ECU doesn't have the capabi…

> 200-400% hasn't been my experience, but I'll give you maybe they should expand carb nationwide to increase the demand side of the curve, lowering costs overall.

49-state legal, direct-fit: $118 https://www.ebay.com/itm/253120020746

CA-legal, universal: $776 https://www.ebay.com/itm/304044103436

CA-legal direct-fit: $1048 (!) https://www.ebay.com/itm/174087409201

> The vehicle ECU monitors the exhaust composition before and after the first catalyst. Downstream, the performance is not monitored by the computer. afiak the ECU doesn't have the capability to monitor nox and hydrocarons directly. The reason for this is that a cheap, reliable oxygen sensor is employed for monitoring.

I don't see what any of this has to do with smog tests, and it's not even accurate for all vehicles (pre obd2 has just a single narrow band o2 sensor before the cat) but this is completely off-topic. The tests shouldn't rely on the vehicle's systems for measuring emissions, it just creates more opportunities for fuckery.

CA smog tests use their own emissions monitoring equipment and have already employed rolling roads to put the vehicles through varying loads during the test.

Re: Catalytic Converter Theft

#105

Post by olyjohn »

bluedino wrote: post #4

The local metal scrapyards are far too lenient. They don’t bat an eye at someone bringing in stolen air conditioning condensers (they can even be brand new) You should have to have the tittle for the car to bring a converter in, since it’s a federal offense to remove them.

I don't get it either. I literally had to replace the cat on my car after it started throwing a check engine light. I took the old one to a scrap yard, and the amount of info they asked me for was crazy. They wanted the VIN of the car, all of the car information like make, model, color, etc, then photocopied my ID and kept records of it. This is in Washington, so it may vary by state. You'd think this would be enough, but there's someone who is not asking questions...

So many scrap yards are out of business in our area now too, I don't get where people are taking them to. Maybe people are taking them out of state to where people don't ask questions.

Re: Catalytic Converter Theft

#106

Post by icedistilled »

reidjs wrote: post #90
_huayra_ wrote: post #52

It's things like this that make it such a shock to go to an extremely safe country / area. All the little scripts one has to keep track of to be "safe and secure" in the US (e.g. instinctively locking your doors all the way to learning that you can't park in SF to take your girlfriend to lunch on your way to drop her off at the airport because a big suitcase is a target for these rampant smash-and-grabs; unfortunatel…

When I owned a car in SF, I always put a visible sign that said 'please don't break in' on it. One of the reasons I decided to sell that car was the daily anxiety of it getting broken into.

I occasionally saw signs that said "nothing of value" on car windows near where I lived, but I always figured the thieves would assume that's what someone who kept stuff in their car would post. Did you get broken into a lot?

Re: Catalytic Converter Theft

#107

Post by throwaway0a5e »

01100011 wrote: post #67
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Then they can show their mechanic's license. Scrapyards already need licenses (permits). Adding licensing requirements will just result in the people with licenses buying from the thiefs. It's just another middleman in the chain. If anything it makes the problem worse because scrapyards often do turn away obvious thieves. A mechanic showing up with ten legit converters and forty stolen ones he bought off the thief g…

Adding another middleman makes the thefts less efficient and less profitable for the thieves. Sounds like a win to me. Sure, it doesn't stop it completely. So what?

If they're not getting prosecuted enough to make them stop adding middle men and reducing profit means they'll steal more cats to get their fix.

Re: Catalytic Converter Theft

#108

Post by gnicholas »

_huayra_ wrote: post #58
Loughla wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's your definition of 'extremely safe' areas? I don't own security nuts, or special locks for my bike, or have ever had my home/car broken into despite not even knowing where my house key is at this point and never locking my car. I don't understand the comparison to the other countries, either. Are you saying they don't have petty crime?

Ah I should be more specific: urban areas in those countries. The level of petty crime in any major city in the US is far higher than any city in those countries I mentioned. In non-urban areas in the US things are better for sure, but you still have to deal with other things like having complete asshole neighbors that you really can't do anything about because small quality of life crimes like partying every night w…

Just for the record, this is happening in sleepy suburban areas also, like Palo Alto. People report CC thefts regularly on NextDoor, and urge neighbors to retrofit their Priuses so they don't fall prey as well.

Locked bikes are stolen in broad daylight in front of grocery stores and at schools. It's probably not as bad as SF, but it is still an issue in the suburbs.

Re: Catalytic Converter Theft

#109

Post by emodendroket »

giarc wrote: post #68
emodendroket wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the mechanic need to sell it to a scrapyard?

I wonder if most shops buy their parts from a distributor who takes them back, most often called a "core charge".

Seems like it would be a way to make such regulation work if so.

Re: Catalytic Converter Theft

#110

Post by emodendroket »

beerandt wrote: post #92
dragontamer wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Adding licensing requirements will just result in the people with licenses buying from the thiefs. Lets think about this situation in programming terms. "Fixing this exploit will just result in the people finding another bug to exploit". Well... yeah. That's the point. You don't necessarily want to stop all crimes (I mean, you do, but that's just unreasonable). Everyone is happy with simple deterrence: making crime…

This is the thinking that got us: 1) the mess that is DRM, whether for software or media, and 2) to the point of 10-step windows activation (including phone calls and having to reinstall because one version only takes retail keys and another only takes oem keys and another only uses network auth), and 3) video games that try and re-authenticate between every frame of play And tons of other "fixes" that just punish us…

How often does your average person sell scrap parts? I don't think the situations are analogous.
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