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State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

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Re: State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

#141

Post by cheschire »

Solocomplex wrote: post #73
meowkit wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work on the core OS. This is the answer. Now it could be done to maintain backwards compat and have everything completely up to date, but the juice is not worth the squeeze and there are more important things to focus on (such as making the OS work/build in such a way that there won’t be inconsistencies in the future).

They tried modernizing with Windows RT, which was actually very smooth and functional if it wasn't so locked down.

Wasn't RT just windows 8 with an ARM build target and win32 stuff removed so they could sell cheaper tablets?

So if you wanted an "unlocked" windows RT, couldn't you just have run windows 8?

Re: State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

#143

Post by golergka »

exoque wrote: post #135
rocqua wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this inconsistent experience is what is opening the door for competitors like Apple and Linux.

The only way of MAYBE having a consistent experience on linux is to only use applications written for the DE of your choice isn't it? Use firefox on KDE and the consistency is already gone.

Android had a pretty consistent UI experience.

Re: State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

#144

Post by formerly_proven »

zamadatix wrote: post #26
vsskanth wrote: post #9

How is MacOS able to maintain such a consistent UI even with massive changes in their design language ? Is Windows UI not a separate layer or something that they can update ? Or is it that the UI elements somehow get baked into the program at the time you build it, so if you didn't update you are just stuck with that particular version of UI you built the program ?

macOS isn't afraid to deprecate or completely remove things even if that means old things won't work. Windows demands 16 bit apps from the 90s should have a very decent shot at running on Windows 11. That level of "it'll always be there" means for the vast majority of old UI it has no technology pressure to be redone, only pressure of what most average users will see day to day. E.g. nobody at Windows is going to dum…

> Windows demands 16 bit apps from the 90s should have a very decent shot at running on Windows 11.

16 bit applications never worked on any 64 bit Windows.

Re: State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

#145

Post by tveyben »

rbanffy wrote: post #136
blackoil wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a power user feature which most users won't will not appreciate. I am using Mac for about 7 years now, and almost never use tabs in Finder.

Tabs are great for saving screen real estate. Finder windows are relatively small and, with large screens, the need to cram two or more folders into the same window ceases to exist. It’s easier to remember the window to the right is my docs folder and the one to the left is the downloads one.

I stopped using Windows file explorer more than a decade ago when I learned about spatial file managers.

I have been in love with - and 10x more productive using - TotalCommander!

The ability to >98% of the file related tasks from the keyboard is very addictive!!!

Re: State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

#146

Post by formerly_proven »

aasasd wrote: post #28
trnglina wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Built-in Windows controls, like buttons, scroll bars, etc. are updated with each system release. However, they are relatively inflexible, and no one uses WinApi anyway, so most frameworks and apps build their own components, with varying dedication to emulating the "native" style. Built-in controls also don't perform much in the way of layout (I believe the only way to position child HWNDs remains manual absolute pos…

> I believe the only way to position child HWNDs remains manual absolute positions? so while your button might look native, your collection of two buttons won't. I thought the native APIs provided some kinds of constraints, like ‘these go into corners, and this is next to that’? Such approach is sorta necessary when windows can be resized. And I thought that UI builders like Visual Basic depended on these constraints…

Win32 does not do automatic layout.

Re: State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

#147

Post by occamrazor »

gogopuppygogo wrote: post #92
meowkit wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work on the core OS. This is the answer. Now it could be done to maintain backwards compat and have everything completely up to date, but the juice is not worth the squeeze and there are more important things to focus on (such as making the OS work/build in such a way that there won’t be inconsistencies in the future).

Could you ever see Microsoft dropping the registry? My probably unpopular opinion is that the registry is the worst feature in Windows. It’s bloat directly impacts the speed of the operating system. Seems like such a waste for so many advancements in Windows but the registry sticks around like a bad hangover.

As other comments point out, there is nothing wrong with the registry itself. On the other hand the editor (regedt) is terrible.

Re: State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

#148

Post by SSLy »

alexvoda wrote: post #108
secondcoming wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it worse than having config files scattered around in distro-specific locations?

And how is it worse than dconf? People hated on dconf during the transition to systemd, but it is here now. I do not really think one is better than the other.

dconf has a nice schema that you can see with the editor

Re: State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

#149

Post by igornadj »

curiousmindz wrote: post #14

This issue is way overblown here on HN. In day-to-day usage, I have rarely been annoyed by these "inconsistencies". The best example to illustrate this article is: Installing a driver with the Windows XP layer. That's probably something that will only happen to people installing very old hardware with drivers from over 10 years ago. I consider that a backward compatibility win: It is great that it even works in Windo…

The article shows clearly there are multiple design languages in very common tasks. The first point is that the volume picker is different from the latest design. This is something users interact with on a daily basis.

Re: State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

#150

Post by underwater »

ridiculous_fish wrote: post #63
Someone wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If any program tweaks a dialog, say by floating a title-barless window with a new control on top of some empty space (possibly after slightly resizing the window or a control in the window to make space), you can’t resize any window control, can’t change tab order, can’t add controls, can’t change background color, etc. Detecting whether that is being done is challenging. Typical workaround is that, if any callback i…

Wow! There really are programs which plug into dialogs in this way? Well, that's a new level of compatibility hell. Thanks for the answer.

You say that, but that's standard operating procedure for plugins on web pages.

A node you create could be arbitrarily changed or removed.

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