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State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

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Re: State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

#131

Post by 0-_-0 »

johnwalkr wrote: post #53
curiousmindz wrote: post #14

This issue is way overblown here on HN. In day-to-day usage, I have rarely been annoyed by these "inconsistencies". The best example to illustrate this article is: Installing a driver with the Windows XP layer. That's probably something that will only happen to people installing very old hardware with drivers from over 10 years ago. I consider that a backward compatibility win: It is great that it even works in Windo…

The worst offender is network settings. After years of at least weekly needing to change some setting for a virtual adapter, VPN etc, I find myself stumbling trying to get to the right screen.

Maybe the Windows God Mode "cheat" would help. It has all Windows settings in one place. You can create a direct shortcut to any of them from there. Activate it be creating a new folder and naming it "GodMode.{ED7BA470-8E54-465E-825C-99712043E01C}".

Re: State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

#132

Post by ComodoHacker »

jiggawatts wrote: post #103
meowkit wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work on the core OS. This is the answer. Now it could be done to maintain backwards compat and have everything completely up to date, but the juice is not worth the squeeze and there are more important things to focus on (such as making the OS work/build in such a way that there won’t be inconsistencies in the future).

Stating that the UI consistency issues are due to backwards compatibility is stretching the truth to the point of outright deception. Backwards compatibility is not what stops Microsoft from updating the GUIs for their own components. It is not the reason that the components that have been updated failed to carry forward 100% of the features of the components they're replacing, necessitating the ongoing use of the le…

>It is also the only way to record metrics and view recordings.

Does logman not working anymore? If not, hasn't it been replaced by PS APIs?

Re: State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

#133

Post by rbanffy »

rocqua wrote: post #129
andi999 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What market share is left there to gain? Ok 17% Mac OS, maybe 5% would switch to Windows?

I think this inconsistent experience is what is opening the door for competitors like Apple and Linux.

I use Apple because their OS is a Unix AND their hardware is nicely built and well integrated with the OS.

I use Linux because it’s a way to run a good Unix-like OS on non-Apple hardware.

The overwhelming majority of people who use Windows (or macOS) is because their computer came with it. As long as it mostly works, people don’t care about which OS they are using.

Re: State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

#134

Post by Flockster »

jpeter wrote: post #96
meowkit wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work on the core OS. This is the answer. Now it could be done to maintain backwards compat and have everything completely up to date, but the juice is not worth the squeeze and there are more important things to focus on (such as making the OS work/build in such a way that there won’t be inconsistencies in the future).

Is this also the reason why there are no tabs in windows explorer?

I'm a TreeStyleTab user in Firefox with always >200 Tabs open. But I never got the idea of Tabs in Explorer (or Finder for that matter).

When I use multiple Explorer Views, most of the time I do it, to interact between them. This is not the case for websites.

So for drag and drop interactions, two windows always beat the drag, hover over the other tab until it catches my intend to switch to this tab, and drop it there workflow.

The same goes for copy and paste. Ctrl+c, alt+tab, ctrl+v. I'm sure there is a corresponding command to cycle through the tabs, but alt+tab is deep muscle memory, that it beats this command always.

Re: State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

#135

Post by exoque »

rocqua wrote: post #129
andi999 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What market share is left there to gain? Ok 17% Mac OS, maybe 5% would switch to Windows?

I think this inconsistent experience is what is opening the door for competitors like Apple and Linux.

The only way of MAYBE having a consistent experience on linux is to only use applications written for the DE of your choice isn't it? Use firefox on KDE and the consistency is already gone.

Re: State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

#136

Post by rbanffy »

blackoil wrote: post #120
jpeter wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this also the reason why there are no tabs in windows explorer?

It is a power user feature which most users won't will not appreciate. I am using Mac for about 7 years now, and almost never use tabs in Finder.

Tabs are great for saving screen real estate. Finder windows are relatively small and, with large screens, the need to cram two or more folders into the same window ceases to exist. It’s easier to remember the window to the right is my docs folder and the one to the left is the downloads one.

Re: State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

#137

Post by TheSmiddy »

Closi wrote: post #94
numpad0 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t it interesting that the inconsistency arguments mostly surfaces around software configuration, like “_Settings_ app is stupid” “I still use XP style _driver installation_ screen” etc? It makes sense why it’s not much of an issue on other GUI environments: in GNU/Linux and macOS, only what’s available on GUI is available on GUI, and the rest goes to the unified scary black screen with very task specific procedur…

It's a good point - I wonder if the actual user really sees an old-looking GUI screen as worse than an arcane terminal configuration.

an arcane terminal configuration at least opens up the possibility of 3rd party settings GUI's to "unlock the hidden potential of your operating system" for the user who wants to tinker but with the safety rails still attached.

Re: State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

#138

Post by runxel »

gogopuppygogo wrote: post #92
meowkit wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work on the core OS. This is the answer. Now it could be done to maintain backwards compat and have everything completely up to date, but the juice is not worth the squeeze and there are more important things to focus on (such as making the OS work/build in such a way that there won’t be inconsistencies in the future).

Could you ever see Microsoft dropping the registry? My probably unpopular opinion is that the registry is the worst feature in Windows. It’s bloat directly impacts the speed of the operating system. Seems like such a waste for so many advancements in Windows but the registry sticks around like a bad hangover.

It is more on the contrary. The registry is one of the most well-thought features of Windows.

Also there is nothing like "bloat". No process needs too loop around or smth like that, so there is literally no way to have a forgotten registry item slowing down your PC.

And last but not least: What are the alternatives? .plist config files like with Apple, scattering around the system?

Re: State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

#139

Post by simion314 »

jiggawatts wrote: post #103
meowkit wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work on the core OS. This is the answer. Now it could be done to maintain backwards compat and have everything completely up to date, but the juice is not worth the squeeze and there are more important things to focus on (such as making the OS work/build in such a way that there won’t be inconsistencies in the future).

Stating that the UI consistency issues are due to backwards compatibility is stretching the truth to the point of outright deception. Backwards compatibility is not what stops Microsoft from updating the GUIs for their own components. It is not the reason that the components that have been updated failed to carry forward 100% of the features of the components they're replacing, necessitating the ongoing use of the le…

>Stating that the UI consistency issues are due to backwards compatibility is stretching the truth to the point of outright deception.

I am not familiar with Windows APIs but I can see this be the truth if MS made it possible for developers to plug inside this dialogs, like a printer driver would plug soem GUI changes in the panels , changing this would break a lot of devices.

Re: State of the Windows: How many layers of UI inconsistencies are in Windows 10?

#140

Post by sorbits »

azinman2 wrote: post #106
meowkit wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work on the core OS. This is the answer. Now it could be done to maintain backwards compat and have everything completely up to date, but the juice is not worth the squeeze and there are more important things to focus on (such as making the OS work/build in such a way that there won’t be inconsistencies in the future).

> Now it could be done to maintain backwards compat and have everything completely up to date, but the juice is not worth the squeeze and there are more important things to focus on You state that as fact, but I believe the poor UI situation is holding windows back from gaining market share. It’s not just the way things look, but uniformly communicate a single experience. Microsoft used to be very integrated and had…

> It’s not just the way things look, but uniformly communicate a single experience. Microsoft used to be very integrated and had an entire ecosystem that was uniform

Their Office suite may have been internally consistent, but I did a bit of software for Windows 2000 (back when it was the latest version), and I found the UI of Windows (in general) inconsistent, scrollbars would e.g. have subtle difference between applications.

I ended up using Qt for my own work, as I couldn’t figure out what was the official / dominant style to follow.

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