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DevSkiller IT skills report 2021: Demand and hiring trends

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Re: DevSkiller IT skills report 2021: Demand and hiring trends

#141

Post by femiagbabiaka »

InvertedRhodium wrote: post #59
s5300 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where exactly is this war zone in California...? Growing up in the sticks I'd heard so much about it and had hilariously low expectations when I went out for an internship, but then I found out that it's a fucking amazing place. I swear there's got to be a decades long campaign to make outsiders think the place is terrible in an attempt to keep density down. Honestly, I'd be perfectly happy if so. Don't want my parag…

While I agree that the other poster was being a bit dramatic, it's no stretch to say that California performs objectively poorer in a number of areas that people tend to pay attention to. Just take one crime - the murder rates in California are 4.3 per 100,000 and only 0.8 in Australia. I can see why some people could see a 450% increase in the likelihood of being murdered as a comparitive warzone.

This is one case in which crime metrics are completely useless for getting an image of what it actually “feels” like to live in a city. American cities are incredibly segregated by economic and racial class. Crime is everywhere, but largely centered in a few especially poor areas. Outside of the core economic centers (and I’m talking neighborhoods), large swaths of the people who work and live in SF are living predictable and safe lives.

Re: DevSkiller IT skills report 2021: Demand and hiring trends

#142

Post by monkeycantype »

s5300 wrote: post #42
SilverRed wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Most of the good devs with half an inkling go overseas No they don't. Because not everything is about money. Life in Australia is just better than some war zone in California.

Where exactly is this war zone in California...? Growing up in the sticks I'd heard so much about it and had hilariously low expectations when I went out for an internship, but then I found out that it's a fucking amazing place. I swear there's got to be a decades long campaign to make outsiders think the place is terrible in an attempt to keep density down. Honestly, I'd be perfectly happy if so. Don't want my parag…

The poster was being hyperbolic. I love California, but as on outsider I didn’t have the sense of which areas were or weren’t dangerous, and to be honest just couldn’t read it, and got myself into dangerous situations. That would never happen in Australia because I can read people and places in ways, and it surprises me that this is true, that I seemed to be culturally blind to in the US. I’m still confused about Compton, to my eyes it read as an easy going middle class neighborhood, is it? - was Dre exaggerating all this time? . In both LA and Oakland (where I mostly lived) there were nights where there was extended gunfire. To be honest this happens in Australia too, but I assume that it’s people out hunting. Oh hang on - I take that back the Proudlock brothers used to shoot each other with air rifles.

Re: DevSkiller IT skills report 2021: Demand and hiring trends

#143

Post by hobos_delight »

astrange wrote: post #73
shric wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AU FAANG pay for health insurance too.

I was actually just looking at this and our benefits in AU seem to be A$3000 a year allowance towards a private plan. That doesn't seem like a lot, but maybe it's enough.

Google Australia health insurance is about ~10k/year for a family (2 adults, 2 kids) to replicate outside - BUPA Corporate Platinum 90.

Re: DevSkiller IT skills report 2021: Demand and hiring trends

#144

Post by hobos_delight »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #83
shric wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This, and Google in Sydney vs London for the same role certainly does not pay 5-7x. Sydney L5 SWE is around 300-350K AUD total comp. If an L5 SWE in London gets 1.5M I'll eat my hat :)

Do you know how much of that comp is actual cash and super?

TC (total comp) does not include super - it's made up of base, stock and bonus. It allows you to somewhat compare against sites.

Re: DevSkiller IT skills report 2021: Demand and hiring trends

#145

Post by bogantech »

intothemild wrote: post #128
SilverRed wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Most of the good devs with half an inkling go overseas No they don't. Because not everything is about money. Life in Australia is just better than some war zone in California.

Aussie eng here.. life in Norway is amazing.

How does the pay compare? I got paid twice as much in Aus vs Sweden & got better health care down under too

Re: DevSkiller IT skills report 2021: Demand and hiring trends

#146

Post by hobos_delight »

I run an engineering group at Microsoft in Australia, we have a reasonable though not (IMO) difficult screening / interview process.

However despite this, we find it hard to get candidates through our pipeline - even to the point where interviewers have been told "I have 15 years of programming experience, why do you expect me to code now". Now, I'm positive we could improve the screening and process we have in place for this - but by the same token it's not terrible... Yes, MSFT is not a FAANG and maybe there is some selection bias in the people who apply - but we also do manage to attract and retain good people who get through the process.

We also offer a competitive package for Sydney, with the ability to take that and work remote from anywhere in Australia, if anyone is looking for a SWE role :)

Re: DevSkiller IT skills report 2021: Demand and hiring trends

#147

Post by DubiousPusher »

InvertedRhodium wrote: post #113
DubiousPusher wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's grodey and depressing but hardly a "war zone".

I'm not sure if you appreciate how utterly surreal that visage is to someone who is 3 hours off a flight from Sydney. It honestly feels like a scaled down version of the slums you see in South Africa butting right up against typical suburban homes.

Sure I do. I'm from picturesque, rural Montana. My first visit to LA in the 90s was quite shocking. But a war zone implies a level of lawlessness that doesn't apply. Most of what is going on, people using drugs, using the bathroom on the street, etc, it isn't good but it doesn't really affect you. In a war zone, you have high odds of being maimed or killed any second for no good reason. It's a poor analogy. I think the homelessness is a problem we need to desperately to address but this kind of militant rhetoric doesn't help at all. In fact for several decades here it has made things worse.

Re: DevSkiller IT skills report 2021: Demand and hiring trends

#148

Post by busterarm »

deminature wrote: post #74
Niksko wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of places that aren't California that still pay double or triple the salary that devs make in Australia

NYC is one of them. Still requires you relocate 10000 miles away from your friends and family, which isn't for everyone.

Williamsburg has a large population of Australian expats. The Australian dev we just relocated already had a good 10 friends there.

Re: DevSkiller IT skills report 2021: Demand and hiring trends

#149

Post by busterarm »

jjjeii3 wrote: post #63

Please also note that German software engineers have much less money comparing to almost any other country. The average salary is 4900 Euro and after tax this will be 2900 Euro !!! Even software engineers in a poor country like Ukraine make more money after tax than that and they also have much lower expenses comparing to Germany. So why someone living in Germany will spend a lot of time for study, learning all the t…

Combine all of that with a major housing crisis that makes it hard to find a good apartment...and if you're in Berlin, the locals resenting you for the gentrification...I'm really puzzled why so many of my friends have left the States to go work there.

Re: DevSkiller IT skills report 2021: Demand and hiring trends

#150

Post by busterarm »

benhurmarcel wrote: post #132
jjjeii3 wrote: post #63

Please also note that German software engineers have much less money comparing to almost any other country. The average salary is 4900 Euro and after tax this will be 2900 Euro !!! Even software engineers in a poor country like Ukraine make more money after tax than that and they also have much lower expenses comparing to Germany. So why someone living in Germany will spend a lot of time for study, learning all the t…

It's not great but that kind of salary is still higher than most of western Europe. Young software engineers in France or Spain don't earn as much.

> Young software engineers in France or Spain don't earn as much.

Central European companies seem to outsource so much development work to Barcelona. You'd think that salaries would start increasing there by now.

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