Frustrated with Parler deplatforming, I am building a service no one can silence • Hacker News Board

Re: Frustrated with Parler deplatforming, I am building a service no one can silence

#141

Post by encom » Mon, Feb 22, 2021, 1:56 AM UTC

GeoffreyPlitt wrote: post #132

Only election-truthers and violence peddlers get scared when Twitter deplatforms election-truthers and violence peddlers. As far as I can tell, serious conservatives haven't been touched. Watch as Trump supporters use every logical fallacy in the book to avoid this fact.

>serious conservatives haven't been touched

Are you familiar with former american president Donald J. Trump?

EDIT: And now I'm banned from posting. Thanks HN. Sorry I don't agree with your hive mind.

Re: Frustrated with Parler deplatforming, I am building a service no one can silence

#142

Post by teh_klev » Mon, Feb 22, 2021, 1:58 AM UTC

gchamonlive wrote: post #123

teh_klev wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In a tolerant society, should we tolerate intolerance? What if in a society once tolerant to gaybashing, and other things (not so long ago), should one not tolerate "intolerance" to this? I think your question needs re-phrased.

Tolerate intolerance to tolerance of gaybashing? That is just not being tolerant to intolerance. The question stands

> Tolerate intolerance to tolerance of gaybashing?

Which explains why you should probably re-phrase. And also because not all societies on this planet are the same in terms of "tolerance".

Re: Frustrated with Parler deplatforming, I am building a service no one can silence

#143

Post by jimmysjohn279 » Mon, Feb 22, 2021, 2:02 AM UTC

Wallstreetbets would undoubtedly also be a user here. They were worried about the discord channel being taken down, their reddit moderators being taken over, etc. Then the SEC started investigating. Strong anonymity would be of value to the retail trader mobs. Online mobs are not going away. They will get stronger.

Re: Frustrated with Parler deplatforming, I am building a service no one can silence

#144

Post by enko123 » Mon, Feb 22, 2021, 2:02 AM UTC

gchamonlive wrote: post #4

In a tolerant society, should we tolerate intolerance? I am genuinely interested to hear your thoughts.

Tolerance is the default strategy of out-groups. When an out-group becomes power dominant, its narrative changes. Tolerance is no longer a high value. Now the high values are conformity, unity, obedience, etc. etc.

Re: Frustrated with Parler deplatforming, I am building a service no one can silence

#145

Post by anon20190221 » Mon, Feb 22, 2021, 2:03 AM UTC

zamadatix wrote: post #58

How does it plan on dealing with spam/bots? In a system where nobody has a verified identity, nothing can be removed without destroying most of the system, and consensus decides what's visible the real users seem to be at quite the disadvantage. Spam/bots are a common, tough, problem for existing imageboards that can exert central control. I don't think light/dark comes close to solving this type of issue, it assumes…

HashCash whose difficulty is chosen collectively based on the load. Since threads/boards are represented with Merkle-CRDTs, there's eventual consistency, so participants can reach some sort of consensus based on the message rate. This limits the posting rate and gives some time for moderation. Threads eventually die off, so it's not a big problem there's shadowed spam in them. And regarding boards, people will simply not participate in making swarms around spammy threads, so it shouldn't be a big deal.

Re: Frustrated with Parler deplatforming, I am building a service no one can silence

#146

Post by effie » Mon, Feb 22, 2021, 2:05 AM UTC

gchamonlive wrote: post #4

In a tolerant society, should we tolerate intolerance? I am genuinely interested to hear your thoughts.

In some venues, up to a point, some types of intolerance, of course. Beyond that, some laws and harsh consequences have to exist for the dangerous cases too. The venues and the red lines should be natural result of society's history and consensus, it should not be imposed artificially by lawmakers or other powerful classes.

Allowing people to manifest mistaken, stupid or repulsive opinions is a basic tenet of free society.

Re: Frustrated with Parler deplatforming, I am building a service no one can silence

#147

Post by anon20190221 » Mon, Feb 22, 2021, 2:07 AM UTC

the_only_law wrote: post #91

Wonder if these sort of “free speech” platforms would be welcoming of intelligent discussions from the viewpoints of things like Marxism, left-anarchists, egoists, etc.

Why not? At least here, free speech means free speech, not "I don't like existing platforms because I cannot silence people I don't like, I'm building a new one" type of "free speech".

Re: Frustrated with Parler deplatforming, I am building a service no one can silence

#148

Post by zerez » Mon, Feb 22, 2021, 2:08 AM UTC

https://github.com/majestrate/bitchan

This seems already close enough to what the author is proposing. Even the language choice is the same.

Your project will still require the users to download a 3rd party software to run it, which I believe to be the main problem with the current approaches. Therefore I don't see anything new this is bringing to the table. It's no different than downloading and running the imageboard above or downloading IPFS/ZeroNet and using one of the imageboards there.

Re: Frustrated with Parler deplatforming, I am building a service no one can silence

#149

Post by cmeacham98 » Mon, Feb 22, 2021, 2:11 AM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #129

cmeacham98 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: you seem to have accidentally strawmanned the opposing argument into a situation where the worst outcome is polite disagreement where you still can "become friends". I'd like to hear your opinions on my steelmanned version of the hypothetical: You meet somebody that is adamantly homophobic. They use their speech to rally others and take political action against gay people. They make same-sex marriage il…

Having tolerance for speech we don’t agree with does not mean we need to tolerate harassment, eviction, or termination. You may argue that free speech may lead to intolerant laws and actions - but history suggests the direct opposite: free speech has mostly expanded tolerance. And it makes sense: we have gay rights as a result of free expression. For the longest time the “offensive” idea being censored was that being…

Are those not forms of speech?

Also, again, what about speech that only indirectly affects you?

What if my speech is "I do not think gay people deserve the same human rights as straight people, and I want the government to deny them those rights"? I'm not saying it to you, I'm saying it to my elected representative(s) in the government. Should we tolerate that speech?

Additionally, I believe that history supports my position. Generally, increased tolerance seems to correlate with when society stops accepting and starts shaming people with 'bad opinions' (racism, sexism, etc).

Re: Frustrated with Parler deplatforming, I am building a service no one can silence

#150

Post by effie » Mon, Feb 22, 2021, 2:12 AM UTC

nerdponx wrote: post #105

allears wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Karl Popper explored this idea extensively. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

It's worth copying and pasting the quote used on Wikipedia, because it actually espouses a very strong view that I think many Americans, even moderate ones, might find surprising: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolera…

Unfortunately, this argument and its result is not a good guide, because it is vague of what is "intolerant" and easily gets interpreted as fighting fascism with fascism. In order to win, we must become the enemy, because we are better. No thanks.