Live data from Hacker News

Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

reuters.com

141–150 of 365 posts

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much more mental gymnastics do we need? I think it's time to accept that he WASN'T jailed rather than trying to forcefully shoehorn the facts into a 'but China still bad' narrative. The HN commentary went from 'Jack Ma is a national security threat' to 'Jack Ma is a poor victim of the CCP will will never be seen again' to 'this is fake, he is still jailed'. If he shows up someone else in person next time, will pe…

Anyone who is living in China, citizen or expat, is going to toe the party line (literally) since the consequences for not doing so these days can be severe. We’ve been through this before with other business people or defrocked public officials: Jack Ma is currently having a peaceful relaxing vacation at one of the party’s many secure resorts (Chinese have memes too). Whether he comes out of this like Fan Binbin or…

> Anyone who is living in China, citizen or expat

Neither myself, nor Cyrus Janssen, are currently living in China. This is my genuine opinion, believe it or not. Nobody forces me, nobody pays me. I thought people are supposed to be "against the CCP but support the Chinese people". Is your support limited to Chinese people who are against the CCP? Why do you not reflect for a while on why someone like me, who has grown up with western culture and has independently investigated China, is not as anti-China as you are? Why is it hard to accept that maybe some of of core assumptions you have about China is wrong?

And no, you don't go to jail for not toeing the party line. That's not how it works. They censor you if your views are stirring up social unrest or calling for overthrow. But they don't force you to say things they want.

At least, that's the case for average citizen. I suppose if you're a high-level business executive with many ties to the government, then things become more complex. But that's not very different from the west, is it? If you piss off a government customer, you won't be jailed, but do you think they'd be happy to continue doing business with you?

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#142
post #129
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Chinese person's perspective about China and its politics/government on HN/Reddit? Enjoy the following classics: 1) you're brainwashed. 2) how do you justify the human rights violations? 3) you're a CCP shill 4) Would you publicly curse Xi and denounce the CCP? Good luck!

I understand the frustration, but please don't post flamewar comments to HN, and especially not nationalistic flamewar comments, regardless of how wrong other people are or you feel they are. These threads are already hellish enough. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Sorry. Please flag or remove if I took it too far.

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#143
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deceiving the Sky: Inside Communist China's Drive for Global Supremacy (2019) by Bill Gertz is an excellent starting point: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/50927537-deceiving-the-s...

I wonder why you’re being downvoted. Is it because it’s so accurate that it hurts or because it’s not?

Please don't break the site guidelines like this.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#144
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This regime is no joke. We need to offer Hong Kong and Chinese citizens a fast and easy path to citizenship in the West. If we do not brain drain China, rehabilitate our manufacturing capability, and prevent the CCP's rise to global dominance, we'll all have our liberties threatened. It could start with an offer to Jack Ma. Offer for him to move to SF or Miami. Watch for the "ha, ha, no thanks", but see the impact it…

You're not proposing a plan to save the world here, what you're proposing is imperialism.

Yup, them saying

>2. Culture war. Tell Disney it's time to stop being cozy and make a "Chernobyl" style film about Tiananmen, Uyghurs, Tibetans, et al.

That's just straight up propaganda coming from a country that has plenty of bad stuff Disney could make movies from too.

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#145
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't break the site guidelines like this. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html This sort of perception is notoriously unreliable and is pretty much entirely in the eye of the beholder. The majority of comments in this thread, and basically every other HN thread on the topic, are not at all as you describe.

Hey @dang, I appreciate your comment and will take it into account. I certainly appreciate your moderation and how quiet a place HN is in comparison with the rest of the rowdy world & internet. It's certainly a special place and I don't want to disturb that. As you can see here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25843540 , I do try to reach out where the opportunity is available, even with those I might disagree w…

I appreciate that you have deep personal connections to this issue, as do many other commenters, both on your side and the opposite side. What are we to do with that but try harder to respect each other?

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much more mental gymnastics do we need? I think it's time to accept that he WASN'T jailed rather than trying to forcefully shoehorn the facts into a 'but China still bad' narrative. The HN commentary went from 'Jack Ma is a national security threat' to 'Jack Ma is a poor victim of the CCP will will never be seen again' to 'this is fake, he is still jailed'. If he shows up someone else in person next time, will pe…

I'm not sure if, or how, one should engage with an apologist for a tiranical, genocidal, dictatorial regime.

accept that the tiranical, genocidal, dictatorial regime is appreciated by many in china.

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who is living in China, citizen or expat, is going to toe the party line (literally) since the consequences for not doing so these days can be severe. We’ve been through this before with other business people or defrocked public officials: Jack Ma is currently having a peaceful relaxing vacation at one of the party’s many secure resorts (Chinese have memes too). Whether he comes out of this like Fan Binbin or…

> Anyone who is living in China, citizen or expat Neither myself, nor Cyrus Janssen, are currently living in China. This is my genuine opinion, believe it or not. Nobody forces me, nobody pays me. I thought people are supposed to be "against the CCP but support the Chinese people". Is your support limited to Chinese people who are against the CCP? Why do you not reflect for a while on why someone like me, who has gro…

Just a note — there is basically zero chance that Jeff Bezos would face any sort of governmental action if he "pissed off a guy in a government department," however influential that person may be. AWS just blocked Parler, and I'm sure our current president — arguably the most powerful man on Earth (until tomorrow) — was not very happy with that.

We don't see Jeff Bezos in hiding for doing that, nor would he have to go into hiding for anything far less.

I don't say this to accuse you (@dang trying not to flamewar) — do you not see that this argument is a little disingenuous? If you don't, I'd love to hear your thinking on why.

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much more mental gymnastics do we need? I think it's time to accept that he WASN'T jailed rather than trying to forcefully shoehorn the facts into a 'but China still bad' narrative. The HN commentary went from 'Jack Ma is a national security threat' to 'Jack Ma is a poor victim of the CCP will will never be seen again' to 'this is fake, he is still jailed'. If he shows up someone else in person next time, will pe…

With all due respect it seems all of your tweets center around defending the Chinese government. Why??? I mean, saying that: > Many people see the Chinese govt's deficiencies as a result of "evil". I don't really subscribe to that. I think it has more to do with "incompetence". Building a large organization, with the right culture, is hard . is kind of ridiculous. Would you say the same thing about the Soviets (with…

Please don't bring in someone's posts on other sites as ammunition in an argument here. I know it always feels relevant, but the general case of people behaving this way is very ugly indeed, and we're trying to avoid the online callout/shaming culture here.

It's sufficient to reply to what someone has actually posted in this context.

https://hn.algolia.com/?query=online%20shaming%20by%3Adang&s...

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who is living in China, citizen or expat, is going to toe the party line (literally) since the consequences for not doing so these days can be severe. We’ve been through this before with other business people or defrocked public officials: Jack Ma is currently having a peaceful relaxing vacation at one of the party’s many secure resorts (Chinese have memes too). Whether he comes out of this like Fan Binbin or…

> Anyone who is living in China, citizen or expat Neither myself, nor Cyrus Janssen, are currently living in China. This is my genuine opinion, believe it or not. Nobody forces me, nobody pays me. I thought people are supposed to be "against the CCP but support the Chinese people". Is your support limited to Chinese people who are against the CCP? Why do you not reflect for a while on why someone like me, who has gro…

> And no, you don't go to jail for not toeing the party line. That's not how it works.

No you don’t. But you might find your work visa renewal denied. Things can get inconvenient really quickly, as a foreigner you don’t want to be a grass mud horse while in China, river crab is the only way to go.

> If you're Jeff Bezos and you piss off the guy in a government department...

Then Jeff Bezos sues the government, which is exactly what happened.

Re: Jack Ma makes first live appearance in three months in online meet

#150
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey @dang, I appreciate your comment and will take it into account. I certainly appreciate your moderation and how quiet a place HN is in comparison with the rest of the rowdy world & internet. It's certainly a special place and I don't want to disturb that. As you can see here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25843540 , I do try to reach out where the opportunity is available, even with those I might disagree w…

I appreciate that you have deep personal connections to this issue, as do many other commenters, both on your side and the opposite side. What are we to do with that but try harder to respect each other?

You're entirely right.

In the words of MLK:

> Hate cannot drown out hate, only love can do that.

Please don't get me wrong — I wasn't trying to excuse my wording; I was just trying to explain that I don't mean to create a flamewar or bitter argument. My comments are a genuine expression of my thinking, and I'm not trying to make HN a place for ideological battle. I suppose these discussions just naturally veer into that sort of back-and-forth.

I hope that makes sense.

Post reply on HN