Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released • Hacker News Board

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#141

Post by throwaway0a5e » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 6:21 PM UTC

jimnotgym wrote: post #101

tyingq wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The problem after that is the stigma that follows you around forever." This is worse than it used to be, as companies of any size can now pull not just convictions, but arrests as well. And not just felonies, but misdemeanors too. Background checks used to be less accessible. They are now cheap, fast, and easily nationwide or worldwide.

Arrests? That surely is a clear violation of the principle of innocent until proven guilty?

Arrested people are not a protected class so employers are free to discriminate based on that criteria.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#142

Post by aaomidi » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 6:21 PM UTC

RHSeeger wrote: post #108

aaomidi wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The call to end prisons, police funding, and prison funding is partially to solve this exact problem. I don't think ANYONE should be able to request a federal background check. I don't think background checks should be allowed for employment or housing. Same as credit checks. A person is either safe enough to be in society, or not. There should NEVER be an in between state. And before you say anything: 1. Yes I am fi…

> What someone did in the past shouldn't matter to anyone if that person has been rehabilitated. That's just it though. The US prison systems, as a general rule, don't rehabilitate; they punish. There is no reason to trust that a person who spent time in prison is more safe after than they were before. In many cases, it's common for people to become more dangerous because of stay in prison. We need to work towards th…

> There is no reason to trust that a person who spent time in prison is more safe after than they were before. In many cases, it's common for people to become more dangerous because of stay in prison.

We can't effectively rehabilitate when we have so many people in prison.

Our rates of re-offense are also messy because we literally don't give people another option other than returning to crime.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#143

Post by jsjsbdkj » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 6:22 PM UTC

SubuSS wrote: post #67

clairity wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thanks for relating your incarceration story. with the benefit of hindsight, 'tough on crime' was plainly power exerting itself on the populace to enhance its own esteem, not an exercise in creating a more just society. let's cut every sentence (and sentencing guidelines) by 90% right off the bat and use the savings for better rehabilitation programs (like more support systems, instructional content, and training pro…

I can sympathize with how this will work out for non-career criminals. How do you see this working out for repeat offenders? Seattle today has a mini-version of this FWIW: We have offenders who have 44+ counts of 'minor' arrests and a felony conviction on the street [1] getting involved in public shootings. Overall I like the part where folks who have paid their dues get their life back through a measured re-introduc…

The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.

The very notion of a "career criminal" is driven by the lack of a social safety net and inability to secure a job on release. I can imagine if you're homeless and targeted by the police it would be very easy to rack up 50 arrests in a year.

If it was possible for everyone to make a living wage the vast majority of "career criminals" would choose a less dangerous way to make a living.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#144

Post by aaomidi » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 6:22 PM UTC

cabaalis wrote: post #75

aaomidi wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The call to end prisons, police funding, and prison funding is partially to solve this exact problem. I don't think ANYONE should be able to request a federal background check. I don't think background checks should be allowed for employment or housing. Same as credit checks. A person is either safe enough to be in society, or not. There should NEVER be an in between state. And before you say anything: 1. Yes I am fi…

I think this black and white view is how the constitution was written, and in boolean logic would be how it is designed. But reality has many shades of grey. Would you trust your personal banking to an institution with history of leaking/mishandling/selling everything about you, or losing records of your balance? Would you trust your health information to a doctor with previous history of kickbacks, malpractice, lax…

> Would you trust your personal banking to an institution with history of leaking/mishandling/selling everything about you, or losing records of your balance?

> Would you trust your health information to a doctor with previous history of kickbacks, malpractice, lax HIPAA compliance?

Were the proper precautions taken so that this won't happen again? Then sure!

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#145

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 6:23 PM UTC

bdamm wrote: post #103

Chris2048 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would trust the state to decide if a sexual predators is safe to teach your children?

The thing is... who else would decide? Isn't it the function of the state to make decisions based on information that is not available to the general public?

[deleted]

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#146

Post by mbbutler » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 6:23 PM UTC

oytis wrote: post #81

i_love_limes wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ehhh, most studies in this realm have a 'results' section and 'discussion' section. I disagree that experts in their field can't have an opinion laid out in the discussion section, given that it follows from the analysis and results from the previous sections. That being said, the page is currently timing out, so I can' even read the article...

'Results' present the new knowledge gained in a short form. 'Discussion' is normally an invitation to scientific discussion, not a political one. But even if it has the latter, it's still not the result of a study, just a piece of opinion that authors saw appropriate to include. The paper [1] really seems more like a call to action from ethicists published in a scientific journal as a study for whatever reason. [1] h…

Yes, the authors published their article in the Journal of Bioethics, which is exactly where this type of article/argument is supposed to be published.

What is your complaint exactly?

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#147

Post by princevegeta » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 6:24 PM UTC

aaomidi wrote: post #54

cubano wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem after that is the stigma that follows you around forever. Tell me about it. Between my prison "stigma" and the discriminatory ageism that is very prevalent in the industry, and even though I have 30 years professional programming experience, I am currently finding it impossible to find any work. Can someone please tell me...what am I supposed to do at age 55? Find a new "career"...doing what? I know ple…

The call to end prisons, police funding, and prison funding is partially to solve this exact problem. I don't think ANYONE should be able to request a federal background check. I don't think background checks should be allowed for employment or housing. Same as credit checks. A person is either safe enough to be in society, or not. There should NEVER be an in between state. And before you say anything: 1. Yes I am fi…

imo the risk of convicted child molesters having a hard time finding jobs involving children despite being deemed rehabilitated by some beurocratic organization is preferrable to the risk of giving them ample oppertunity to molest more children, unless it could be scientifically demonstrated with great certainty that the rehabilitation program was completely effective in like at least 99.99% of cases (how would you even falsify this hypothesis given how many victims choose not to speak out?). Similarly i would not want people such as bankers or politicians convited of corruption/fraud or similar things being in positions where they have significant influence over the economic conditions of millions of people without proper supervision (which clearly is there is not) The strategies for dealing with criminals should really vary depending on the type of crime thats been commited i think, as others have pointed out i think your views on this are too black and white

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#148

Post by aaomidi » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 6:24 PM UTC

ImprobableTruth wrote: post #140

aaomidi wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The call to end prisons, police funding, and prison funding is partially to solve this exact problem. I don't think ANYONE should be able to request a federal background check. I don't think background checks should be allowed for employment or housing. Same as credit checks. A person is either safe enough to be in society, or not. There should NEVER be an in between state. And before you say anything: 1. Yes I am fi…

I don't understand what policy you would want in regards to sexual predators. The recidivism rate for pedophiles is e.g. 14% after 5 years, 24% after 15 years. Does that mean we should just lock them up forever? Or do you really think having someone like that live next to children is a necessary gamble?

I think a free, and accessible counselling system should be funded with the money saved from not having so many prisons, and sexual predators should be required to go to mandatory meetings with their counsellors. But that's the extent of the "consequences" they need once they're in society. And the counselling shouldn't be seen as a punishment, rather a public service for them and the community they reside in.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#149

Post by aaomidi » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 6:26 PM UTC

Chris2048 wrote: post #86

aaomidi wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The call to end prisons, police funding, and prison funding is partially to solve this exact problem. I don't think ANYONE should be able to request a federal background check. I don't think background checks should be allowed for employment or housing. Same as credit checks. A person is either safe enough to be in society, or not. There should NEVER be an in between state. And before you say anything: 1. Yes I am fi…

You would trust the state to decide if a sexual predators is safe to teach your children?

> You would trust the state to decide if a sexual predators is safe to teach your children?

I trust the state to test the medicine I buy from a pharmacy. The state isn't some __other__ machine. It's made up of people like you and me, trying to make society operate and people to generally get along with eachother.

If I saw that we as a society are moving towards rehabilitation, and better social services for criminals, then yes. I would trust them. Just like I trust them with roads, with hospitals, with medicine, with food.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#150

Post by aaomidi » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 6:27 PM UTC

dominotw wrote: post #104

aaomidi wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The call to end prisons, police funding, and prison funding is partially to solve this exact problem. I don't think ANYONE should be able to request a federal background check. I don't think background checks should be allowed for employment or housing. Same as credit checks. A person is either safe enough to be in society, or not. There should NEVER be an in between state. And before you say anything: 1. Yes I am fi…

> 2. Yes I'm fine with sexual predators living in the same building as me. Teaching my children. And being my co-worker. For the same aforementioned reasons. I am parent and I understand what you mean here and It makes complete sense to me. But I am having a little hard time with this, some part of my brain just wont' accept it.

> I am parent and I understand what you mean here and It makes complete sense to me. But I am having a little hard time with this, some part of my brain just wont' accept it.

I completely understand, we need to "unlearn" what we know about policing and criminal justice. It's a hard process that takes generations, but at the end of the day it will lead to less offensive behaviour overall. As a society we're too "reactive" to problems. We don't provide the help for people before they turn to various forms of criminality.