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Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

psyche.co

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Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#141
post #81

> Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed? I think these studies are all significantly flawed because successful people with dark personality traits learn to cover up their dark traits. As a result, the cohort of people with "dark traits" in these observational studies will inevitably be skewed towards those who are less successful/intelligent/adaptable. Possessing "dark traits" basically means…

So true, that "Mother Teresa" is a generic term for the epitome of saintly altruism, but the truth of the matter is that she was a fraudulent self promotor who glorified the suffering of others, claimed poverty and disease were gifts from God that build character, and who Christopher Hitchens described as "a fanatic, a fundamentalist, and a fraud," and called "The Ghoul of Calcutta".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Mother_Teresa

>In 2013, in a comprehensive review covering 96% of the literature on Mother Teresa, a group of Université de Montréal academics reinforced the foregoing criticism, detailing, among other issues, the missionary's practice of "caring for the sick by glorifying their suffering instead of relieving it, ... her questionable political contacts, her suspicious management of the enormous sums of money she received, and her overly dogmatic views regarding, in particular, abortion, contraception, and divorce". Questioning the Vatican's motivations for ignoring the mass of criticism, the study concluded that Mother Teresa's "hallowed image – which does not stand up to analysis of the facts – was constructed, and that her beatification was orchestrated by an effective media relations campaign" engineered by the Catholic convert and anti-abortion BBC journalist Malcolm Muggeridge. [...]

>She was sometimes accused by Hindus in her adopted country of trying to convert the poor to Catholicism by "stealth". Christopher Hitchens described Mother Teresa's organisation as a cult that promoted suffering and did not help those in need. He said that Mother Teresa's own words on poverty proved that her intention was not to help people, while he quoted her words at a 1981 press conference in which she was asked: "Do you teach the poor to endure their lot?" She replied: "I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people."

Christopher Hitchens - Mother Teresa: Hell's Angel [1994]

In 1994, three years before her death, journalist Christopher Hitchens made this documentary asking if Mother Teresa's reputation was deserved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76_qL6fiyDw&ab_channel=CaNAN...

Christopher Hitchens explains why he didn't like Mother Teresa

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wckZo3ks1ro&ab_channel=moema...

Christopher Hitchens on Mother Teresa (2006)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZiKAeJ9mAU&ab_channel=Stipo...

Penn And Teller "Bullshit" episode: Christopher Hitchens on Mother Teresa

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nCaxHN-cY&ab_channel=Chris...

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only HN had a gold star type thing, instead you'll have to settle for being included in my notes. > having greater optionality in your actions is likely to lead to a more optimal path towards your goal. One of the frequent issues I hit with other people is that they will "block off" a choice before actually evaluating it. They will, for instance, refuse to bring up that they have another job offer in a salary nego…

> "they need me and the company might fail if I leave" Isn't this also some kind of hero mentality that these people enjoy being part of? Eventually they realize it doesn't pay bills but while it does make them feel great and that's the temporary payoff. We all learn from our mistakes. It might also be genuine kinship with their coworkers and this is exactly where the leadership of the said company is extremely smart…

What about nurses working 12 hour shifts, helping people survive covid-19 -- now they are needed, or people will die.

But I never heard about them getting any special extra compensation for working that much and also a bit risking their life. Also, nurses are often women. Are they light pattern people getting exploited? Why won't society raise their salaries, so more people will work as nurses or at least not resign -- so they won't need to work 12 h shifts

> it does make them feel great and that's the temporary payoff.

I think in the cases of nurses it can be the opposite: that they'd feel guilt if they quit

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 'Dark' people don't hide it as well as they'd like. It sometimes works in reverse though. Sometimes people think I'm funny when I would have though I quite clearly meant the unpleasant truth I just blurted out!

Laughing can be as much a sign that they got it and are trying to diffuse the inner tension it created in them as it is a sign that the unpleasant truth was actually taken as a joke. Frankly, depending on the tone of the laughter I sometimes take it as a direct statement that I was understood.

An example? Of things you've said? Anonymized I suppose

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming that at least some choices of the dark trait choices are better than non dark trait choices. You're also assuming people are able to find those better choices when presented with more choices.

What are you trying to say? Aren't those assumptions reasonable?

Sounds clearly reasonable to me

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#146
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but its been shown pretty consistently that higher agreeableness (more empathy) has a negative effect Be careful conflating agreeableness with empathy. In Big Five OCEAN, empathy is a sub-facet of agreeableness(A), but not the only one. Other sub-facets of agreeableness are conflict-avoidance, modesty, compliance, and naive trust in others. Intuitively, it would seem to me those are more important contributor to su…

Sociopaths are great at empathy. Empathy is the ability to observe and understand others emotions without actually connecting. It’s absolutely essential to be a successful dark triad tape. Sympathy is the “light” counterpart, where you actually emotionally resonate with the other person. Obviously this makes nasty behavior less attractive since you feel the emotional effects too. And now you know why corporate psycho…

source? seems like a rather twisted definition of empathy.

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#147
post #81

> Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed? I think these studies are all significantly flawed because successful people with dark personality traits learn to cover up their dark traits. As a result, the cohort of people with "dark traits" in these observational studies will inevitably be skewed towards those who are less successful/intelligent/adaptable. Possessing "dark traits" basically means…

This is absolutely true in my experience. Early in life I would go on to avoid obviously manipulative people and that mostly worked.

As you get older you run into people who are more skilled manipulators. These people realize that in order to be good at it you need to be able to hide your intentions and seem like you’re doing the opposite. This fakery can get so elaborate that sometimes it can turn into a quasi genuine relationship. The contradiction only comes to the fore at crucial moments when you realize what’s truly going on.

The first thing skilled manipulators realize is the need to mask your true intentions. If you’re ambitious you need to seem like you’re the opposite. This means an insane amount of attention given to charm and appearances. An extremely charming and soft spoken manner can go a long way in concealing ambition / motives.

The next thing one can do is to use moralistic principles to stymie your rivals instead of open opposition. This can mean using arguments about morality, code quality, loyalty. The point is that it should seem like it comes from a concern for the greater good. Which it might be but people won’t notice how this is wielded selectively.

The best tell for such people is usually an obsession with power. They will usually spend a lot more time networking with the powerful than their peers. This is often done discreetly.

Another tell is how they treat their friends and family though it’s hard to find out.

The next thing that is often done is to find people who are emotionally vulnerable because of what’s going on in their life. Some people have a very good nose for this.

Dark and Light are just labels for the extremes of the spectrum.

In general be very careful in your dealings with people who are high up in the world / extremely popular. There’s a reason they’re there and it’s not just their aptitude for the job.

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laughing can be as much a sign that they got it and are trying to diffuse the inner tension it created in them as it is a sign that the unpleasant truth was actually taken as a joke. Frankly, depending on the tone of the laughter I sometimes take it as a direct statement that I was understood.

An example? Of things you've said? Anonymized I suppose

"You really don't want to put anything in this public document that attests to those numbers, or implies that the company will commit to them. Yes, I know that everyone in the company has been swearing on them for months. I also know how they were calculated."

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#149
post #81

> Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed? I think these studies are all significantly flawed because successful people with dark personality traits learn to cover up their dark traits. As a result, the cohort of people with "dark traits" in these observational studies will inevitably be skewed towards those who are less successful/intelligent/adaptable. Possessing "dark traits" basically means…

So true, that "Mother Teresa" is a generic term for the epitome of saintly altruism, but the truth of the matter is that she was a fraudulent self promotor who glorified the suffering of others, claimed poverty and disease were gifts from God that build character, and who Christopher Hitchens described as "a fanatic, a fundamentalist, and a fraud," and called "The Ghoul of Calcutta". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cri…

It's not shocking that as an anti-theist Hitchens was not a fan of Mother Teresa.

Re: Are people with dark personality traits more likely to succeed?

#150
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sociopaths are great at empathy. Empathy is the ability to observe and understand others emotions without actually connecting. It’s absolutely essential to be a successful dark triad tape. Sympathy is the “light” counterpart, where you actually emotionally resonate with the other person. Obviously this makes nasty behavior less attractive since you feel the emotional effects too. And now you know why corporate psycho…

source? seems like a rather twisted definition of empathy.

Twisted yes

However I'd think some sociopaths can be good at logically cognitive intelligence wise understanding how a different person feels.

But being unable to actually feel real empathy, I wonder if they might mistake their logical thinking for being empathy? Which they will instead never know what it is

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