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Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

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Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#141

Post by jolux »

nl wrote: post #79
alfalfasprout wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compare it to plain vim and you'll be shocked at the responsiveness difference. I even find the jetbrains IDEs kinda laggy.

I've been a software developer since the 1990s. I know how Vi(m) feels and I much prefer the affordances offered by VS.Code. Ironically Jetbrains IDEs are Java, using Java Swing for the UI[1]! This is even less native than VS.Code where at least native widgets are used. I guess this shows how much our impressions are formed by expectations! [1] https://stackoverflow.com/a/12311981/280795

Swing is definitely not "less native" than Electron. The entire window is a web view in Electron apps. I believe Java Swing was even an officially supported UI toolkit on the Mac a long time ago.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#142

Post by greggman3 »

tambourine_man wrote: post #106
yesimahuman wrote: post #13

I respect them for sticking to this, but I think it's a mistake. It's clear users in general don't care about an app being pure Mac OS controls/SDKs/etc. and their claims about it being a truly superior UX are unfounded (having used both regularly, Figma disproves that heavily). With this, Sketch isn't available on Windows nor the web (until very recently it seems?). I wouldn't die on that hill.

A lot of Mac users do. We chose the platform because of it, among other things. I hate that WhatsApp, Skype and other crap Electron apps that I’m forced to use because of other people can’t do simple things like propor multi language spell checking that macOS has had since day one and that every other app gets for free.

Both WhatsApp and Skype have web versions that, at least for me, work just fine. And Chrome's spellcheck is miles ahead of MacOS

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#143

Post by Razengan »

greggman3 wrote: post #142
tambourine_man wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of Mac users do. We chose the platform because of it, among other things. I hate that WhatsApp, Skype and other crap Electron apps that I’m forced to use because of other people can’t do simple things like propor multi language spell checking that macOS has had since day one and that every other app gets for free.

Both WhatsApp and Skype have web versions that, at least for me, work just fine. And Chrome's spellcheck is miles ahead of MacOS

> And Chrome's spellcheck is miles ahead of MacOS

But Chrome is a klackety resource hog compared to Safari.

Web versions of native apps always feel clunky in comparison and they're almost always missing features, like accessibility.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#144

Post by phendrenad2 »

Anyone at Sketch reading this, don't be discouraged by the naysayers here. Stick with cold hard evidence and you can't go wrong. Is Sketch faster than Figma? Does it alt-tab faster, due to not having to swap in the entire Chromium browser? Can you scroll through complex designs faster? Does any of this translate into user conversions or retention?

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#145

Post by Razengan »

Scarbutt wrote: post #91
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to write native apps (Swift). I won’t go into why (as everyone here seems to be trying to convince everyone else, who aren’t really listening, anyway. I’m not really looking to change my viewpoint). Figma is cool. I’m working with a designer, now, and we’ll see how it goes. Not sure I’d really say it was a direct Sketch competitor, though. I think Adobe Illustrator is Sketch’s biggest competitor, and that says…

What can Sketch do that Figma can't?

Better support for the built-in accessibility features of macOS.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#146

Post by brailsafe »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #109
yesimahuman wrote: post #13

I respect them for sticking to this, but I think it's a mistake. It's clear users in general don't care about an app being pure Mac OS controls/SDKs/etc. and their claims about it being a truly superior UX are unfounded (having used both regularly, Figma disproves that heavily). With this, Sketch isn't available on Windows nor the web (until very recently it seems?). I wouldn't die on that hill.

I think this is a good example of the HN bubble which is one of the only places where "native macOS app" means anything to anybody. At least something more than "oh, I need to have a Macbook for that?" My girlfriend is a UX professional that does most of her work in Sketch. She doesn't care about macOS beyond the fact that it's required by the tools she has to use. I impulse-built an overpowered Windows machine earli…

Sounds like she came up with a good reason to decline the offer under the duress of someone comparing specs as a selling point. If I did the same with my GF who just uses the web and some standard apps, she'd be like "no, why would I want that giant monolithic rgb heat generator that I can't take anywhere?". Some people buy nacs because that's what the applications run on, or it's required for school, but a hell of a lot of people just like macs.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#147

Post by Razengan »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #64
nl wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VS.Code users aren't exactly casual users and in the main are happy enough to use it as their main coding interface many hours per day (and yes I understand that this is HN so now there will be a bunch of people saying "I'm not happy).

I love the things VSCode offers that its competition doesn’t. I can’t imagine working with any of the other available editors for the Mac. I hate how I feel like I’m working in a weird web app all day every day. I feel both simultaneously.

Give Panic's Nova a try:

https://nova.app

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#148

Post by 1123581321 »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #31
yesimahuman wrote: post #13

I respect them for sticking to this, but I think it's a mistake. It's clear users in general don't care about an app being pure Mac OS controls/SDKs/etc. and their claims about it being a truly superior UX are unfounded (having used both regularly, Figma disproves that heavily). With this, Sketch isn't available on Windows nor the web (until very recently it seems?). I wouldn't die on that hill.

I agree with you, and I think this is a pretty good signal that Sketch is REALLY feeling the heat from Figma, because they aren't offering a better argument besides "we're native". The bandwagon has clearly jumped off Sketch and onto Figma, and not because it's "fashionable", but because Figma is plain awesome.

This is just one single-topic blog post on the Sketch blog. It is not a complete argument for using Sketch. It does present a complete overview of why someone would benefit from a native Mac app.

I don’t know what the bandwagon is doing, other than that I’m aware that Figma is also popular, but clearly cloud software has been contending with native for some time, each with their own advantages, and so it’s not surprising or concerning that software vendors of both software platform types would market the advantages of their chosen platform.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#149

Post by thelittleone »

xyst wrote: post #19
robertoandred wrote: post #11

Good for them staying native and not getting caught in a least-common denominator Electron hell. People uses Macs because they want to use Macs and software that takes advantage of the reliability and consistency of that ecosystem.

> software that takes advantage of the reliability and consistency of that ecosystem probably true ~4-5 years ago, but not so much today. Catalina broke a lot of apps (due to SIP?). Big Sur is likely to break even more existing apps. In one case, it was seen that Apple apps do not obey the same rules that third party developers must abide by ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24838816 ). I use a mbp at this point…

>> I use a mbp at this point because it's not Windows.

Precisely the same. I used to be a big fan of the Apple ecosystem. When Jobs said the customer doesn't know what they need, he was usually right... he of course was a gifted visionary. Apple has continued with the same mindset but without the gifted visionary, in some cases with comical decisions e.g., keyboard, touchbar, soldering SSD to logic boards with high failure rates).

Can't we just rustle up a few obscenely rich billionaires to donate a hundred million to develop an OS with a top priority of quality and usability rather than lock in.

Re: Sketch: Proud to Build a Truly Native Mac App

#150

Post by shivam-dev »

whoisjuan wrote: post #46

Figma is eating them brutally. I'm a designer and everyone I know (and their companies) are moving away from Sketch. Figma understood that the breakthrough of this market is to create a platform, not a tool. Building a native app is not going to help you win this market. That's for sure.

Seconded. We work closely with a design firm for our products, them and us, we've slowly all migrated to Figma to a point where all our design assets, branding assets, mockups are on Figma. Ironically being Mac only is one of the reason Sketch is losing against Figma. There was a gap in cross-platform collaborative design tools, Figma made the move, and did so with amazing UX. Sketch was, what I'd say, lazy when Figma was at it.
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