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Abuse isn’t an “advising style”: Consequences of MIT sheltering abusive mentors

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Re: Abuse isn’t an “advising style”: Consequences of MIT sheltering abusive mentors

#141

Post by yardie »

tyingq wrote: post #35
yardie wrote: post #15

I was an undergraduate work-study student working in my university lab. I got to talking with a Ph.D student helping set up his equipment, "how long you been working on this?" "Almost 10 years." "Seems really long." "Yes, normally it's 5 years but I can't enough time to finish it. I'm always working on Prof. Engineer's research projects." "I mean can't you just leave?" "No, not at all. You are completely beholden to…

Ouch. Think I'd just research real world salaries for the Masters degree and likely flee.

Grad student visas are a whole animal. Transitioning from an F1 to a H1b, or green card, is fraught with it's own complications. That's why most graduate schools are stacked international students. Americans and permanent residents wouldn't put up with it. And that is by design.

Re: Abuse isn’t an “advising style”: Consequences of MIT sheltering abusive mentors

#142

Post by yardie »

etrautmann wrote: post #45
yardie wrote: post #15

I was an undergraduate work-study student working in my university lab. I got to talking with a Ph.D student helping set up his equipment, "how long you been working on this?" "Almost 10 years." "Seems really long." "Yes, normally it's 5 years but I can't enough time to finish it. I'm always working on Prof. Engineer's research projects." "I mean can't you just leave?" "No, not at all. You are completely beholden to…

This is really odd to me. In most contexts I’ve experienced, the professor’s research and the student’s are more or less one and the same. Yes, you might have an extra project, but how could someone get stuck for an extra five years?

Professor's will normally have 1-10 projects simultaneously from what I gather. They rely on the grad students to do the actual gruntwork. If you are doing research in X and the professor pivots you to his project Y what are your options.?

Re: Abuse isn’t an “advising style”: Consequences of MIT sheltering abusive mentors

#143

Post by UncleMeat »

m0zg wrote: post #13

Fair warning: you _never_ get the full picture if you only hear one side of it. It is possible that the advisor is a manipulative asshole (though it's unlikely that they are to such an extent), or it is possible that the author grew up always getting participation trophies and now isn't getting any (far more likely, IMO). So before you render your judgment, wait for at least some semblance of corroboration.

You don't think the thousands of PhDs who've had abusive relationships with their advisors corroborate things? I've known tenure track faculty who have said "I don't want to work with women - they don't work as hard" and later got tenure.

There exist good advisors. There exist happy students. There also exist abusive advisors and systems to protect students are nearly nonexistent. This has nothing to do with "participation trophies".

Re: Abuse isn’t an “advising style”: Consequences of MIT sheltering abusive mentors

#144

Post by NicolasGorden »

waterhouse wrote: post #124
NicolasGorden wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there was serious abuse I'd 100% agree with you. One problem we have is the word abuse, based on the modern definition and usage, encompasses a range of activities from things that are only slightly unkind and rather run of the mill to extreme examples of verbal cruelty. The particular points highlighted in the article don't strike me as being on the cruel side. My understanding of the world is that the higher you…

> Maybe there was an accusation in that article you consider so gratuitos and bad that it's worth condemning this institution which for better or worse has figured out how to squeeze out human innovation and potential like nothing before in history. 1. There is a common fallacy. Just because a system is getting good results (even the best results) doesn't mean that every part of it is well-chosen to contribute to tho…

> My advisor was hemorrhaging students, yet no red flags were raised. ... Those who planned to complete their PhD left the group or left MIT.

This literally tells me nothing.

What's the average completion rate in that field? What's it for other great professors?

"hemorrhaging", like "abuse" is very vague language. I don't like condemning people based on this. It seems like a slippery slope.

Again, if you can point out a particular accusation in that article you feel deserves complete condemnation and the type of upheaval we are seeing, please point it out. I'd like to learn.

Otherwise, I'll continue to see this as a failed Navy Seal complaining about how tough it is to become a Navy Seal without understanding that the difficulty is built into the concept of why it's elite. If it was easy, there'd be no status associated to it.

Re: Abuse isn’t an “advising style”: Consequences of MIT sheltering abusive mentors

#145

Post by Volt »

leetcrew wrote: post #80
tyingq wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ouch. Think I'd just research real world salaries for the Masters degree and likely flee.

I'm told this is a common path, at least in CS. apply to a phd program to get funding, do some research, take some courses, then drop out because you "just can't handle it" once you have enough credits for your free masters degree.

Maybe you're just putting it this simplistically for the rhetoric, but if you're doing research it's not really free. You're actually getting paid (albeit not much) and having your tuition waived to do work as a researcher.

Re: Abuse isn’t an “advising style”: Consequences of MIT sheltering abusive mentors

#146

Post by leetcrew »

Volt wrote: post #145
leetcrew wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm told this is a common path, at least in CS. apply to a phd program to get funding, do some research, take some courses, then drop out because you "just can't handle it" once you have enough credits for your free masters degree.

Maybe you're just putting it this simplistically for the rhetoric, but if you're doing research it's not really free. You're actually getting paid (albeit not much) and having your tuition waived to do work as a researcher.

I don't have any firsthand experience, this is just what a few of my friends at CMU have told me. they also complain about their paltry stipend, which I find kind of amusing considering that the waived tuition + stipend is close to what I gross for my fulltime SWE gig.

Re: Abuse isn’t an “advising style”: Consequences of MIT sheltering abusive mentors

#148

Post by pavanky »

NicolasGorden wrote: post #117
pavanky wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is just a terrible terrible thing to say to excuse abuse. You cant expect others to toil away to benefit your "genius".

> You cant expect others to toil away to benefit your "genius" Brilliant reply. Except... I never said my genius. The fact that you make up arguments and distort what I said is evidence of the emotive nature of your response. I'll invite you to improve the quality of your discourse. I have respect for people who I disagree with as long as they can show the basic decency of engaging with what I said and not behave dis…

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