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Abuse isn’t an “advising style”: Consequences of MIT sheltering abusive mentors

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Re: Abuse isn’t an “advising style”: Consequences of MIT sheltering abusive mentors

#71

Post by ironman1478 »

NicolasGorden wrote: post #7

> Too often I have been told to be proud of the great work I am a part of, as if this should outweigh the negative and harmful things myself and others have experienced. Actually, that's how it works in the real world from my experience. Most geniuses have terrible shadows that are as dark and long as they are brilliant and tall. Most of us feel really lucky to get things done and be a part of something, and when we…

They already went to college. PhD students are employees doing self guided research that brings in lots of recognition and money to these institutions. They are making little money yet doing work harder than 99.9% of people. They should not be demeaned. There are many work environments that are not like this and we should not pretend like it is the norm. If it is genuinely the norm, the we should work to fix it, not just say 'thats how the world works.' we get to define how the world works. Let's make it less shitty.

Re: Abuse isn’t an “advising style”: Consequences of MIT sheltering abusive mentors

#72

Post by srtjstjsj »

chrisseaton wrote: post #58
etrautmann wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really odd to me. In most contexts I’ve experienced, the professor’s research and the student’s are more or less one and the same. Yes, you might have an extra project, but how could someone get stuck for an extra five years?

> In most contexts I’ve experienced, the professor’s research and the student’s are more or less one and the same. A PhD is an individual research degree - ideally you’re supposed to be working on your own ideas not someone else’s.

That's not how it works in a lab that relies on expensive equipmentvand multi-year research programs. Those PhD thesis projects are minor variants on your PIs research program.

Re: Abuse isn’t an “advising style”: Consequences of MIT sheltering abusive mentors

#73

Post by srtjstjsj »

xiaolingxiao wrote: post #30

This is very very common. As long as professors publish, they can get away with a lot of things, bonus points of the students are indentured to their H1B. I've seen Ph.D students in their 30s, mother of children, cry in front of me because of the abusive and neglectful actions of their advisors. They essentially run their lab as a personal fiefdom, and HR is powerless in this situation. Sexual harrassment cases are m…

Not H1B. Some Education visa.

Re: Abuse isn’t an “advising style”: Consequences of MIT sheltering abusive mentors

#74

Post by aidenn0 »

I don't want to condone violence or anything, but I've always wondered how advisors like this don't get murdered. I've definitely met PhD students who would prefer prison to the alternatives of quitting or staying under their advisor.

I suppose people who are inclined in that direction would get out some other way before things get that bad.

Re: Abuse isn’t an “advising style”: Consequences of MIT sheltering abusive mentors

#75

Post by leetcrew »

waterhouse wrote: post #3

On that subject, from 24 years ago: > I need from you a few paragraphs describing your personal interests, > advising style or philosophy, background and professional interests. > ... I'm preparing a document to give the freshman for them to use to > select an advisor. I need to receive your info by early next week. I was born and raised in Atlanta, Georgia, majored in mathematics and Computer Science at Yale Univers…

do people actually expect meaningful advising in undergrad? my adviser hardly even had a chance to "vent" at me (he didn't really seem like the type anyway). I met with him once each semester as a formality to get the key I needed to register for classes. aside from the one time he suggested I not take the three hardest courses in the major concurrently, he didn't really say much. I was usually in and out in fifteen minutes.

Re: Abuse isn’t an “advising style”: Consequences of MIT sheltering abusive mentors

#76

Post by srtjstjsj »

wegs wrote: post #59
fireflies_ wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a bit surprised to hear it put this way. Aren't physics students usually welcome in finance as quants?

(1) Most don't want to be quants. It's a soul-sucking no work-life-balance career path. You're getting paid better, but it's a hyper-abusive work environment. (2) Quant hiring is super-competitive. most physics students wouldn't get jobs. A lot of quants are physicists, but the converse isn't true. (3) And students? Not so much. Quants like to hire Ph.Ds or possibly ABDs. Ones who are ALSO good programmers can go the…

Most employed programmers can't do "industry grade engineering". Physics grad students are plenty capable, with a boot camp if needed.

Re: Abuse isn’t an “advising style”: Consequences of MIT sheltering abusive mentors

#78

Post by djaque »

wegs wrote: post #52
djaque wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, I've actually been warned against their physics department for grad school. The other rumour I heard is that Harvard is even worse (for physics grad students). Tons of toxic behaviour like sabotaging labmates in the name of competition and advisors holding onto students for like a year after they should have graduated to pump out that last paper from them.

Physics and bio departments tend to be the most toxic. Students have no BATNA.

Actually, I've heard that chemistry departments are a standout in terms of abuse and that seems true just from the students I've talked to at my institution. There's like this weird old school attitude of "this is the way we've always done it" so I'm going to pass you through the flames too. Add that to the motivation of "if I can just get through this then I can get a cushy pharma job".

Come to think of it, the news stories I remember (just off the top of my head) of advisors pushing their students to the point of suicide were chem. advisors.

Re: Abuse isn’t an “advising style”: Consequences of MIT sheltering abusive mentors

#79

Post by waterhouse »

MereInterest wrote: post #60
wiredfool wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another bit of advice, see if the lab has had any suicides in recent memory. Also, if one or more occurs, gtfo before the stress gets you.

Divorces, too. A family member was applying to med schools, and during one of the visits there was a boast of a >100% divorce rate among students. Every married student who entered that program was divorced by the end, as were some who got married during the program. To have such a stressful program is bad enough, but to boast about it as a sign of prestige and dedication is even worse.

> to boast about it

What the actual fuck? Why would anyone who loves their wife or husband choose to enter such a program? (Best-case scenario: a few years of data produced this anomalous result, someone noticed it and decided to draw attention to it, and it has since scared away all married students, so that there will never be any future data points to contradict it.)

Still, from what I know about medical school and residency in general, any place that periodically assigns 24-hour work shifts just because is ... perverse.

Edit: Ok, it's not 100% "just because"; there are some rationalizations. https://www.ama-assn.org/residents-students/residency/3-tips...

Re: Abuse isn’t an “advising style”: Consequences of MIT sheltering abusive mentors

#80

Post by leetcrew »

tyingq wrote: post #35
yardie wrote: post #15

I was an undergraduate work-study student working in my university lab. I got to talking with a Ph.D student helping set up his equipment, "how long you been working on this?" "Almost 10 years." "Seems really long." "Yes, normally it's 5 years but I can't enough time to finish it. I'm always working on Prof. Engineer's research projects." "I mean can't you just leave?" "No, not at all. You are completely beholden to…

Ouch. Think I'd just research real world salaries for the Masters degree and likely flee.

I'm told this is a common path, at least in CS. apply to a phd program to get funding, do some research, take some courses, then drop out because you "just can't handle it" once you have enough credits for your free masters degree.
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